"awi regiments usable for either side" Topic

I think I've spotted three uniforms worn by a unit on each side -- meaning they could be "swing" units in non-historical games, to balance a game by assigning to whichever side needs them.

1. Continental Marines in their first, white faced uniforms, and the loyalists from the Atlantic seaboard provinces, 1776-77. Green coats, round hats, seem nearly identical.

2. green coat faced red, buff small cloths, used apparently by several units on each side, including Seth Warner's Green Mountain Boys, and Royal Highland Emigrants, Quebec, 1776.

3. Webb's Continentals in red coats -- and there were a few other red-coated Continentals. I've read that they wore hunting shirts in battle, but wonder if this was invariably the case; there were certainly blue coats on both sides, and Hessians confused for helmeted Continentals like Haslets, and vice versa. European armies fought often with same color coats.

I think I do the rank and file stands of these units, then do separate command stands, one for each side, to be able to switch them.

Comments? Any other uniforms found on both sides?

Almost all of the locally raised "militia" units on both sides would have been wearing identical civilian dress.

Especially in the South these troops formed major component of the war.

Also regulars on both sides were not always provided with issue uniforms.

So don't forget lots of figures in civilian dress very usable for both sides. And it would not be proper AWI without them. It really was a civil war.

Well,the Continental Marines were only present at a couple battles during the Trenton/Princeton CAmpaign,and even then,only in company strength.

The "Green Mountain Boys. The uniform Mollo shows is/was the uniform for the 1st NH Regt. Warners additional Regt. MAY have worn green faced red,but deserter descriptions consistently say brown,or light brown faced blue.

As for red coated Continental units,a few CT regiments were said to have worn red coats. Red faced white,red faced blue and Webbs,red faced yellow,was also from CT.
Also Formans additional wore red faced buff with the linings taken out.

Bob C.

Yeah, thanks. Certainly Loyalist militia dressed the same as Patriots. I'm going to have a small unit of Marines, even though, as you say, they weren't present at many battles. I use a 10:1 figure ratio, so can field a dozen figures without stretching the truth too badly.

I much prefer using correctly uniformed minis to represent specific units that were really "there" -- but I also think refighting historical battles can be very unhistorical due to players having too much knowledge of what really happened. So I will certainly do some large meeting engagements, or British assaults on Patriot defensive positions, that are not historically correct. I think having a few units that can be plugged in to either side will be helpful.

Just wondering if anyone else has done this?

Smallwoods Maryland Regt- red coats,buff smallclothes and facings

Well for club games my Hessian musketeers (in tricorn) have pretended to be Continentals…

much prefer using correctly uniformed minis to represent specific units that were really "there" -- but I also think refighting historical battles can be very unhistorical due to players having too much knowledge of what really happened. So I will certainly do some large meeting engagements, or British assaults on Patriot defensive positions, that are not historically correct. I think having a few units that can be plugged in to either side will be helpful.

Just wondering if anyone else has done this?
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I absolutely do! I want the same units that were there, or else it will bug me to no end! Especially in 28mm,where you can see more detail, and the flags. 10/15mm not so much.
That is why I'm building the Southern British Army,and plan to refight the battles in the South with the correct units.

Bob

Smallwoods Maryland Regt- red coats,buff smallclothes and facings
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They wore hunting shirts over those uniforms for the most part.

Bob

Bob, when you do Cowpens, will you require the Brits to charge head-on into the pocket? I've never liked the "McClellan-must-be-an-idiot" rule, but you can't refight Antietem in a fair game without it.

My preferred solution -- which takes time -- is to use a boardgame as the basis for a campaign -- with the historically available force -- but then let battles generate themselves, which can be non-historical OBs and terrain.

Bob, when you do Cowpens, will you require the Brits to charge head-on into the pocket? I've never liked the "McClellan-must-be-an-idiot" rule, but you can't refight Antietem in a fair game without it.
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When I play it,it will probably be using Piquet: Field of Battle.I love the randomness of the Piquet system.

Bob

@doc:

Some other American units likely wore (at least at times) green coats with various facings, such as the 1st NH, some of the Philadelphia associators, and the Dover LI.

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I think it unlikely that any American unit took the field of battle in red uniforms. My suspicion is that they were primarily for camp.

Haslet's regiment was mistaken for Hessians at Long Island, but this does not mean that they literally looked like Hessians (at least up close). The British were viewing them from a distance, and they were the only American unit on the field dressed in uniform coats. The Brits had not seen a blue-coated American regiment before.

@ doc mcb,

It now seems that Haslet's never wore the leather helmets previously ascribed to them and almost certainly wore the usual cocked hat (as did the Hesse Cassel musketeer units).
In fact, the extant cap usually quoted as being from Haslet's is thought now to be a post-war item from a militia/volunteer unit.

@ PzFerdinand,

Smallwood's regiment was an amalgamation of several pre-war militia units, one of which was from Annapolis – these were the men who wore red-faced-buff. It is not clear what the other companies/units making up the regiment wore, if they had any uniforms at all. As 95thRegt says, the regiment was seen in a parade in NYC earlier that summer all wearing light coloured hunting shirts (I suspect the colour that Americans today refer to as "tan").

@ Adam D,

RED COATS – Several general orders were issued admonishing Continental regiments for wearing captured British coats in situations where confusion could have occurred (I believe two units at Germantown fired on each other, at least in part, for this reason). In theory, they were supposed to wear hunting shirts over them in battle; in practice, these were not always available and after 1777 captured red coats were usually issued to musicians. It was always possible for units to turn their coats inside out to avoid confusion.

Some of Montgomery's army in Canada had winter coats made up from captured items from the 7th and 26th Foot, for the siege of Quebec.

BLUE COATS – The men captured at Long Island (a Marine grenadier company, IIRC) might not have seen blue-coated Americans before, but anyone who had served in North America would have been more than familiar with this. Most northern colonies formed blue-coated Provincial regiments in the F&I War and many pre-AWI militia units had blue regimentals – these, in turn, formed the basis of several early war Continental regiments (at least two Massachusetts regiments at Bunker Hill had blue coats, as did a couple of the 1775 New York regiments).

BLUE COATS – The men captured at Long Island (a Marine grenadier company, IIRC) might not have seen blue-coated Americans before, but anyone who had served in North America would have been more than familiar with this. Most northern colonies formed blue-coated Provincial regiments in the F&I War and many pre-AWI militia units had blue regimentals – these, in turn, formed the basis of several early war Continental regiments (at least two Massachusetts regiments at Bunker Hill had blue coats, as did a couple of the 1775 New York regiments).
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What units wore blue coats at Bunker Hill? I never recalled reading anywhere where ANY units had regimentals.I'd be VERY interested to know!
As for the NY Regts. I know the 1st NY of 1775 had blue faced scarlet/red. And parts of the 3rd NY had blue faced green,to go along with brown and grey faced green. The 2nd also wore blue faced dark red,or crimson. The 4th of course had grey,or buff faced blue.BUT,the musicians of those regiments did NOT wear reversed coats, but had lace in the facing color,or no lace at all. Sgts. and drum majors had silver lace.

Good info!

Bob

NY city militia under Col. Lasher wore blue coats faced red and green coats faced white IIRC at Long Island. They continued with the army until after White Plains when they were disbanded.

NY city militia under Col. Lasher wore blue coats faced red and green coats faced white IIRC at Long Island. They continued with the army until after White Plains when they were disbanded.
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Yes,there was even a grenadier company with F&I War type mitres. they were disbanded close to where I live actually.
I also have the color plates from The Company of Military Historians.

Bob

95th,

From memory, some of Pat(t)erson's were in blue faced buff (IIRC, Mollo shows them with buff lapels, which aren't mentioned in the description in Katcher); I think the other unit was Mansfield's. Sorry, it was probably wrong to say that the 1775 New England REGIMENTS were uniformed, but various units included long-standing militia companies in blue.

Mollo does have Patterson's in blue and buff and claims these are mentioned in deserter descriptions (note plural), but no date is given, so the regiment (or at least certain companies) could have had uniforms at Bunker Hill, or maybe only some months later. In any case, to get back to the original query, I personally would not have a British or Hessian foot regiment stand in as an American unit because aside from the color of the coats, one would expect the Americans to be more variable in terms of equipment and other clothing items (plus more likely to shed coats in hot weather). I don't see a problem, though, for many green-coated regiments. King's Rangers to double as 1st NH? Makes sense to me.

kingsrangers.org/index.php
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kingsrangers.org/index.php
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Wow! Its the Herman Goring regiment! LOL!

If you check Troiani,and the Company of Military Historians,they both show them in a form of light cap.They also wore green and red smallclothes at some point.
I did the 1st NH and used the OG special edition figures. The 1st also wore brown faced red at some point also,and I mixed some of them in as well.
Also,the musicians wore the odd color combination of yellow faced green!

Bob

The first NH Regt.

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Bob

Adam,

Katcher cites a deserter report for Patterson's in the New England Chronicle for the week of 3-10 August 1775.

Your point about regularity of kit etc is well made.

Katcher cites a deserter report for Patterson's in the New England Chronicle for the week of 3-10 August 1775.

That Kather book is VERY underappreciated! I never knew it existed till I saw it at On Military Matters.I paid a lot for it,but its worth every penny! Not many illustrations,but damn good info!
Uniforms of the Continental Army by Philip Katcher.

Highly recommended!

Bob