"Which sci-fi ending is more annoying...?" Topic

The recent thread on the upcoming movie "Avatar" was on my mind as I watched the final discs of the new "Battlestar Galactica". After several months watching them pretty regularly, I found that about halfway thru the show's run it started to become a shambles of plot lines, vague, rambling high-school philosophy, and childish theology. Not only was the show hard to follow but I started to get to the point where I was fatigued by how miserable the lives of the characters were.

The ending continued this trend. A mish-mash of simplistic evolutionary mush with some pop science thrown in, I continued watching just b/c I wanted it to END and be done with it.

This got me thinking…

Which is the more annoying ending for your typical sci-fi flick: The pat ending ("…and they all lived happily ever after") or the lecture ("if only we could just all get along, the universe'd be a great place…").

Place your vote now.

Having just been victimized by the ending of Battlestar, my vote for most annoying is "the Lecture".

lecture.

Anything that doesnt end in the end of the world sux. :-)

All else being equal, the lecture is more annoying. Proper skill in presentation can make up for it, but if there is a lecture to be delivered, subtlety is generally not part of it.

Depends on what you call a "lecture". The original Planet of the Apes had what was arguably a "lecture" ending, yet remains one of the most powerful and iconic endings in movie history in its entirity, never mind just sci-fi.

If done right, it can be powerful. If laid on with a shovel… terrible.

On the other hand, happy endings need to be believable (and can work when they are) and not just a last minute rather forced wrap-it-up-in-five-minutes reset button (which, yes, can be rather infuriating and a dissapointment).

Interestingly, the happy ending in Aliens really worked for me after all that time invested into the characters. After allthey'd been through I WANTED those guys to have their happy ending. So what happened to those characters in a throw away opening title sequence in Alien 3 never did work for me and actually lost me completely. I've never seen Alien 3 again to this day.

On the other hand the famous reset buttons at the end of Star Trek episodes – no matter how dire things have been in the story – really aggravate and lose the story a lot of credibility. ( I enjoy Star Trek but those resets drive me nuts).

I think all in all, it depends how it is done and why it is done and how it comes across, both endings have their merit when done well, both types can dissapoint and/or annoy me when done badly. Erm, well I guess I don't have a straight answer for you.

Lecture.

And not to be left out, I too witnessed the horrific final thrashings of Battlestar Galactica. The ending was really the worst part.

Happily ever after – like the season 4 ending to Babylon 5.

Happily ever after – like the season 4 ending to Babylon 5.

Refresh my memory. Who ended up happy in that episode aside from the sim of Garibaldi?

Aliens…

Yup. On the same page, except I didn't see 3. Read the reviews and the gripes, and decided not to give it any of my money.

Ironically, 4 makes 3 almost worthwhile, but the catch is that 3 doesn't actually need to exist for 4 to work. And of course, 4 has its own problems.

"yet remains one of the most powerful and iconic endings in movie history in its entirity, never mind just sci-fi"

Thats because it fits my description of the perfect ending (see my previous post :-)

Alien 3 and onwards are total crap and not a patch on the first two films.

Terminator 3, I haven`t seen the latest one yet!

Highlander 2 and onwards, oh why the misery!

The last two Matrix films, what happened to the original cool ideas…..

The extra Aliens, Terminator 3 and Highlander films I just choose to refuse their existence.

Went a bit off tangent there, but these films should never have been made and are endings (even if wrong) of a sort.

My 2 bob

AS

Ohhhh, tough choice.

Happily ever after is for chumps unless the story is devised like a fairy tale to begin with (The Last Starfighter is a good example.)

And even though if done subtly where I barely realize it's happening; I have to say *The Lecture* when badly applied is most hated (On Deadly Ground is a great example of a horrid, in-your-face lecture movie.)

It will turn me against everyone who had the bad judgment to even be involved in the movie, not just the story originators (writer/director.)

"yet remains one of the most powerful and iconic endings in movie history in its entirity, never mind just sci-fi"

Thats because it fits my description of the perfect ending (see my previous post :-)

Of course. Its a proper Heroes Journey tale, with elements of some of the best. The ending is right out of The Odyssey (and/or The Lord of the Rings, for that matter). Defeat the last known obstacle/menace and head for home, only to find the *real* final showdown is on your own doorstep.

Lecture.

(BTW, love your take on BG, HesseCassel)

Lecture annoys me.
I went to the movies for pure enjoyment and escapism.
If I want a "The World needs to…" lecturing stuff, I'll go see a play. (Fat chance I'd go to a play though… its tougher to sneak beers into plays… )

Can I offer another?

Science shouldn't mess with things it doesn't understand!

some very nice thoughts here, people…

"Science shouldn't mess with things it doesn't understand!"
To which we might add, "or isn't meant to even address" like God. I don't know a single scientist who thinks that science is qualified or even oriented towards addressing theological questions.

Mardaddy, I was actually thinking about "Last STarfighter" but was afraid it was too obscure! hah!

"Anything that doesnt end in the end of the world sux. :-)"
:) :O

So, this makes me think I need a vote on the ending of BSG…

Does the ending of "Newhart" count as a happy ending?

Lecture.

The second worst is when I discover that Pam actually dreamed the last season of Family Guy.

"Sleeping in Light" was wonderful as an ending, as was "Deconstruction of Falling Stars". Either work as a perfect ending to B5. Both are lectures.

It isn't HOW the series ends that matters. It's how the ending fits in with the story of the show. A show has a whole story arc, that the ending should be a part of. If the arc isn't there, then the kind of ending hardly matters.

Oh, and the worst ending of all is when they cancel Firefly in its infancy and we never get to see how it would have ended.

You know, they killed of Thomas magnum in teh end of Magnum P I, and yet still made it somewhat "hapy". Or maybe it's hopeful…?

"The Lecture" is at the top of my list, quickly followed by "everything is happy and good", followed next by "screw it, we just decided to kill everyone and everything in the end.

Now, I like the ending of Aliens, precisely because it ends with just a little bit of hope, but you know that it CAN'T be THAT simple… something will happen later. (unfortunately, garbage is what happened…)

Science isn't qualified to enter into theological debate because it only deals with what's real. For fantasy you need authors…..

Hard to say – not ending like a Chinese movie would be good (happy ending? Chinese movie – I don't think so)

The lecture is a real downer – so is the hideous ending of all things – that being said, I liked the way Serenity ended

Well said Scutatus.

The lecture. That is why I hate "The Day the Earth Stood Still" so much. It's a "grab you by the lapels and shake you, with onions and cigarettes on the breath" lecture.

The Lecture is never subtle. That is the problem.

John the OFM,

Do you mean the recent "Day" or the original Michael Rennie version? Didn't bother to see the recent one;but the 1950's one is a classic. (in my 'umble opinion;^)

BTW we've had a few good lecture endings listed. I'll round out the list with a good battle ending: Angel. Not sci fi of course but Angel looking up into the LA night sky and calling dibs on killing the dragon was bad ass.

Neither is automatically bad or good, nor is one inherently better or worse. Still, I think lecture has the potential to be worse if the writer really "tries".

The worst endings are the 'I don't care how it ends, just let it end soon please' endings. Not SciFi (kinda) but the latest Batman was like that for me.

But isn't the very nature of true sci-fi a lecture?

Essentially isn't a study on how the future will affect our society is a comment on how our society is today? Farenheit 451 or 2001.

I think most of you guys are talking about sci-fantasy. I don't mean that as a deragatory term. Sci-fantasy is a heck of a lot of fun. Alien, Star Wars, …

every one dies….. perhaps?
the Blakes 7 ending.

I'm with richarDMB on this.

I go to movies to escape.

Movie Producer Peter Dragon from the short lived (but AWESOME) series "Action!":

"I'll tell you exactly what they want, Senator. They want chase scenes and car crashes. They want firm breasts and tight-assed Latino men. They want their cowboys to be strong and silent. They want their cops to bend the rules to get the job done. They want the boy to get the girl. They want the alien to be killed, unless he's cute. They want the good guy to win, they want the bad guy to die, preferably in the biggest explosion the budget will allow. But most importantly, Senator, they want to walk into a theater and for ninety minutes be able to forget about the (blankin') mess YOU have left of this nation."

..and if I want a lecture, I'll go find my worst ex-girlfriend. She had a never ending supply.

Guiscard

Dilettante, I do mean the original Michael Rennie "classic". I hate it for its "Earthlings must be saved from themselves" lecture.

I throw my vote in for The Lecture as well.

JtOFM, as much as I dislike Klaatu berating us for being bad, I enjoyed seeing Gunga Din as the leading scientist. "World to your satisfaction, sahib?"

But isn't the very nature of true sci-fi a lecture?

While "Speculative Science Fiction" depends on the idea of "What if", it does not need to be social/political/moral commentary to be "true" SF. The best often is commentary of some sort, even if it is commenting on a "problem" that does not yet exist except in the imagination. Some of the moral and ethical issues surrounding cloning were being explored decades ago, for example.

But it is lecturing?

Michael Crichton, long criticized for writing "anti-technology" stories, only avoided the "Science Fiction" label because his literary agent was good at dodging what was and is seen as an inferior "brand" on his writing. SF fans know better, but a lot of 'best seller junkies' don't. While Crichton's books often contain lectures of fact to explain the plot (such as the discussions of germ mutation in 'Andromeda Strain' and the sex-change gene mistake in 'Jurassic Park'), it is uncommon for a book of his to be a *blatant* lecture. He let the story do that for him.

Ugh. . . I hate the lectures. Most sci-fi has a message, much of it is allegorical. But the lectures absolutely suck.

I will agree with the earlier poster than Planet of the Apes had an incredible ending – although personally I liked it less than I liked the ending to John Carpenter's The Thing. THAT was a classic sci-fi ending!

Blakes 7---you watch it for years and then suddenly,they all die---cynical,lazy,and pointless.And just before Christmas.

@Frederic: I thought Hero had a great ending.

Also, the kind of ending that irritates me the most depends on whether it's a series or a movie.

If I get a conclusion of most of the major plotlines in a series, that's a good ending.

A movie can end with everyone dead (Magnificent 7/7 Samurai/300), and still have a great ending. ID4's speech: "We will not go quietly into the night…" or Delios' line from 300 "The Persians are trembling with the memory of what 300 spartans did to them …"

All that said, I really hate to be lectured by the ending of the movie. If you want an allegorical sermon, write the entire story to deliver that, not just your ending!

The Lecture.

And sign me up for also hating the original "The Day the Earth Stood Still." When I found out it was going to be a re-make, I danced for joy, knowing that a horrible re-make would tarnish the original, even further.

The Puritans had nothing on Robert Wise.

My least favorite is the whole thing is a big loop as seen in several recent anime series.

i hate the ending where the buddies solve the crime, then one of the buddies does something kooky and the other buddy has a "WAAAH!?!?!?" look on his face and the screen freezes their expressions and the credit start to appear. oh hold on, that's quinn martin productions ….

Oh, I though Crichton's "Airframe" did a great job explaining why you don't let an idjit into the cockpit. Then again, I'd read that book when I was working as an aircraft mechanic, so I already knew a lot of the background material, including the counterfeit parts issue.

The reconstruction may have been a little techno-thriller (I don't know if it's actually possible to record that much info from the black boxes), but it was very well done.