"Other Fantasy RPGs?" Topic

I'm looking for recommendations for a fantasy RPG that isn't Dungeons and Dragons. I have a few caveats:

- It should be preferably be world-generic, or easily modified to other settings.
- It should have a low number of mandatory books (by which I include any sourcebooks that people consider a 'must-have'), the lower the better.
- It should be less 'Levelled' than D+D- characters should advance, but never feel invulnerable to any threat of violence

Does anyone have any favourites or suggestions?

Dragon Warriors! It is my new favorite. you Just need the one book to play!

link

Savage Worlds has fantasy support in the main rulebook, though because it is designed to be a "generic" set of rules its not as extensive. There should be a PDF you can download with expanded rules, etc. I really like SW for being a fairly simple game, but not being simplistic. It also has a lot of support to play the characters you want.

Damon.

"never feel invulnerable"

That would be Runequest/BRP. It does have the 'problem' of being tied, either weakly for 3rd Ed or strongly for all other editions, to the world of Glorantha, but that can and has been overcome before. The term the RQ folks often use for such projects is "Gateway". Anything labeled "Runequest Gateway" is not set in or intended for Glorantha.

In the "fiddly mechanics and lots of pre-game decisions by the Ref" department you have the xd6 games: Hero and GURPS. Both games meet points 1 and 3, but run to a lot of books, and so fail on your second point.

West End's d6 Fantasy is generic but cinematic, per its Star Wars ancestry. Only a few books, though.

True 20/Blue Rose is a D&D 3e derivative that takes a lot of the superhuman out of the game through a completely different damage mechanic. Not that many books, either.

Earthdawn is strongly tied to its setting, and has funky mechanics. The first two editions have power issues. I have yet to see any feedback on 3rd edition, out just this year.

i second runequest

As a lover of D&D I feel strangely compelled to suggest the farthest thing from D&D I can without going to far into wacky indie RPG land. So I will suggest Burning Wheel. It doesn't play anything like other RPG's I've read. No levels, and you can start play with raw amateurs to veterans no problem.

link

Check out some reviews. I think it's a neat game.

Hackmaster.

I'll third Farstar's suggestion…
I'm a huge fan of Chaosium's new Basic Roleplaying book… covers just about any genre I'd want.
The quickstart rules are free off their website and include some sample adventures in various settings. You just have to register on the site to get it.

None of that level/class/alignment nonsense.

For a more specific setting you could look for Stormbringer/Elric (sword & sorcery), Runequest, Elfquest, or some of the new settings chaosium has been releasing.

I also think Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is great fun… much less bombastic than the miniatures game. It's dark and dirty and dangerous… you can play a Ratcatcher.

On the other hand, if you like the level/class/alignment sort of thing I'd say go with one of the 'Old School Renaissance' games like Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord, or Osric. S&S and LL have free PDFs.

I will also nominate Basic Role playing. The rules have suggestions how to tie it to any genre or setting. You could run a game with just the one book.

Cheers.
GeorgeD

Another vote for Basic Role Playing. GURPS has also been around forever as the mother of generic rpgs. Yeah, there's a lot of books, but you only need 1 or 2. We're playing with just the basic rulebook.

I would say you might want to check out The Riddle Of Steel. However, seeing that this is crossposted to the Dungeoncrawls board, I should point out that it's not really well suited to those.

TRoS is very character driven and best for a group of players who like to roleplay more than fight monsters. Combat is extremely deadly and based on real maneuvers and such rather than abstracted like it is in many games. Magic, if you use it, is also very powerful and the system allows a creative player to do all sorts of nifty things.

I think it may be out of print now, but I'm not sure. If you can find a copy, the main rulebook is all you really need. There were a couple of suppliments produced (and a third was in the works/may be out now), but they're not really needed to play the game.

If you've got a mature group of players, it's a LOT of fun.

Here's a link, but I don't know how useful it is, as the site seems to be out of date:
driftwoodpublishing.com

FUDGE fudgerpg.com

Tunnels and Trolls.

1. Totally generic.

2. One book.

3. No such thing as "invulnerable".

Burning Wheel is very nice!

It's a bit different, and rather involved, so it's best suited to a fairly small group and a regular campaign. Say two or three players ready to learn new intricate rules.
(Two books, one for rules and one (essentially) for character generation and skills and stuff.

Savage World is also a good recommendation – fast, easy to learn, and fun. (One or two books.)

HeroQuest is good for some different sort of games – it models combat in a very special way, not at all wargamey, and does all other stuff very nicely.
Not good for dungeoncrawls, but excellent for political/intrigue games. Extremely generic.
(One book.)

These ARE the rules you are looking for. tft.brainiac.com

Another vote for Chaosium's BRP (Basic Role Playing) I've used them since the 70's & have never been disappointed. Fast & easy to learn & run. You can still use all the old Gloranthan material too. I also like Heroquest for more "story-telling" games.

I'll second what Rattlehead mentioned, Riddle of Steel. It is absolutely the deadliest RPG combat system I am aware of, but which rewards thinking players and harshly punishes anyone blindly rolling dice without forethought.

A similar one is Rolemaster Classic if you want a system that still has levels, but with criticals incorporated in the combat that makes sure no one is invulnerable. Not nearly as much brain-work needed for combat, but can still be deadly. There is also a reduced version, Rolemaster Express.

Rolemaster Classic – link

My personal choice is TRoS, and I am working through setting up a background for a mini-campaign for my players (something based upon vikings, but with active fantasy elements as it was from their sagas, with some other classic stuff mixed in).

TFT is a good option. It is very hard to stay alive. :)

Another vote for Savage Worlds.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is my second choice after D&D 3.5 (don't get me started on the waste of paper that was 4ed… )

To me, Runequest, Rolemaster, and the Chaosium system always seemed like D&D knockoffs. They have their own charms, but they're not that far off of old-school D&D.

Riddle of Steel I will have to check out. I don't know anything about it.

For truly different from D&D, Savage Worlds would be good if you have lots of players or plan on having tag-along npc followers or soldiers. That's what Savage Worlds does really well. Works best with minis.

If you've got a small party, I'll say Burning Wheel again. Character creation is lots of fun, with the player really involved with the creation of the game world through their choices. The system seems intricate at first, but no more so than any other game once you wrap your head around it. You can also "pull back" on the rules to a simpler level if you prefer. For example, you can just use the "rim of the wheel" if the players are fighting a bunch of mooks to give the feel of a fast and furious combat. Or you can use all the rules when they get in a fight with a big-bad. Minis not required for sure, but could be used if you wanted. I don't think I'll game without minis again no matter the system.

RQ / Basic roleplaying. Essentially the same thing.

- Somewhat tied to Glorantha – but who cares, just ignore any references to it.
- One book.
- No levels involved. Progression is smooth and based onwhat the PC's do. Also, PC's can't become invulnerable 'max/min' monsters.

To me, Runequest, Rolemaster, and the Chaosium system always seemed like D&D knockoffs. They have their own charms, but they're not that far off of old-school D&D.

Runequest = Basic Role Playing (BRP) = Chaosium.
The only relation it has to D&D is that it is a flat probability system that went with a d20 in one game and a d100 in the other. It may feel "Old School", but it isn't D&D by any stretch.

Palladium, on the other hand, is a poor D&D House Ruleset that no longer wants to admit it.

Rolemaster/MERP also shows a lot of D&D influence, though it went much farther afield than Palladium ever has managed.

WFRP – is a good very alternative system to D&D, and it certainly does not have the players being invulnerable. But it is not generic and it's main strenght is it's gothic dark setting.

Fantasy Hero – is very generic (maybe even too generic), but it's very possible to end up with either invulnerable characters, or you start having monster inflation (tougher and tougher monsters that the players have to fight). Since the hero system was designed to create comic book superheros, it's kinda built into the system to a degree. GM's have to be careful to avoid the Uber character problem.

Basic role playing (BRP, Runequest, Chaosium, whatever) – can be fun, but because of the way skill experience works (each success with a skill means you have the chance to gain experience points with that skill) players have a tendency to try to use every skill in each adventure, which as a GM I ended up getting annoyed at.

Tekumel (last version of Empire of the Petal Throne) – One of the best game designs I have seen in years. Players design their characters, yet the design rules are very balanced, faily easy to use, and hard for people to abuse. No one is invulnerable, and the game rules are easy to use and play is fast and fun. But talk about setting specific, there is probably no way to convert the rules to another setting (and if you did, you would end up with something that pretty much is just a mirror of EotPT with the names changed). And what a setting! One of the only games that the hardest thing that the players have to face is the game background.

Really though, what it comes down to is that any system can be abused to create invulnerable characters, unless the GM takes control of things. Some system can be abused more then others, thats true (see Hero system). But any system can be really really fun for people, with the right GM.

There is a new version of Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play coming out soon, and it has been described to be much different than the old versions. If you want the old stuff, you'd better get it now.

Depending on how generic you want to go, there are other alternatives. D&D is really just a (rather clunky) skirmish system with some campaign rules tacked on. Mayhem: Warrior Heroes from Two Hour Wargames or Song of Blades and Heroes from Ganesha games might work well if the primary campaign focus is combat (or if you tend not to resolve role-playing encounters with a die roll). I took a similar step in superhero gaming when I ditched the absurdly flexible and detailed Hero system (Champions) for the simpler and faster Supersystem (which my casual players could actually understand).

D&D is really just a (rather clunky) skirmish system with some campaign rules tacked on.

That's just the most recent editions (3.0 and later). AD&D 1st and 2nd were really just clunky campaign systems with some vague skirmish rules tacked on.

Well, Qin: the Warring States is firmly set in ancient/mythic China, but meets all of your other requirements. It could easily be translated to a more Japanese setting, but it would be just about impossible to remove the eastern feel from the rules.

You only need the Main book. I would *suggest* getting the Bestiary as well, but that's not a necessary purchase. The only absolute recommendation I have is the Storyteller's screen.

Basic role playing (BRP, Runequest, Chaosium, whatever) – can be fun, but because of the way skill experience works (each success with a skill means you have the chance to gain experience points with that skill) players have a tendency to try to use every skill in each adventure, which as a GM I ended up getting annoyed at.

I've seen people say that before, but truthfully, in all the games I've played using those rules I've NEVER seen someone doing that… maybe it's just the people I play with.
I don't think it's a game for that sort of obsessive min/maxer.

A couple that I haven't seen are;

HARP (from Iron Crown Inc). This is a game similar to their Rolemaster system, but I think in many ways it works better. It is not level dependent. It is also a little simpler than Rolemaster. The basic book has everything you need, though there are a couple of others that CAN be used to expand things, but aren't needed.

HarnMaster. I love the combat system in Harnmaster. It is fun to play, and tactics make a difference. The magic and religion system are good also. However, the game is based on the world of Harn, but it is fairly easy to pull the game from the world. The downside is that you need three books to play. There is the main rulebook, and then a book for magic and religion.

Tunnels & Trolls

That classic book Fantasy Wargaming by Galloway.
link

I played some Savage Worlds with four guys for about three months and we had about eight sessions in that time.

None of them had played Savage worlds before so I decided to not let them in on any real details and just deal in descriptions and roles.

They thought it was a really impressive flexible system and I let them do some pretty strange stuff and acommodated them with what they wanted to do wherever I could, but it was largely illusion.

It was supposed to be a post apocalyptic time when swords and polearms were back but some people still had .45 automatics or .357 revolvers (and ammo) if they got in good with the metal working guild. And of course there were some demons, lizard men, psychics, mutants, cultists, sorcerers, returned old gods, forest spirits, and some undead running around here and there.

One guy had a possessed talking axe that cursed and howled at people during a fight to intimidate or taunt them. I thought that was a pretty clever idea to have the player playing good cop to keep his crazy axe back while axe was begging for JUST ONE EAR MAN THAT'S ALL I ASK. I PROMISE YOU I WILL STOP THIS TIME WITH AN EAR. IT WON'T BE LIKE THAT LAST GUY. I WAS TIRED THEN BUT I'M BETTER NOW. ALL I WANT IS ONE EAR. JUST ONE. I SWEAR. GIMME HIS $#@#ING EAR! I'M SOOOOO HUUNNGRRYYYYY!!! Other than that it was just an ordinary axe.

I didn't have the heart to tell the "Rot Priest" that four of his six spells/powers were the same exact spell/power with different descriptions. He'd describe a new power he wanted to get, I'd look up ways to do what he'd come up with, and yeah…it's pretty much his old 'blast something' power again, except instead of a 'summoned cloud of insane flesh hungry beetles', this new one is 'a hideous wave of pure entropy that brings the incredible pressure of time down on the target all at once'. Both area effect blasts. One resulted in blood spray and the other in withered limbs and dust but damage with a period of weakness following is just damage with a period of weakness following. Still I tried to make him use the "different" poweres against different stimuli to make them SEEM useful. :)

We had a lot of fun since I kept my mouth shut about how it all worked. It kind of reminded me of an old Mekton game I was a player in where nobody really knew how anything worked but the GM and somehow we still knew that missles were awesome and that the bad guy wasn't dead just because we blew his robot up and it crashed into a volcano.

That's great. And it's exactly how we played Shadowrun in college. Only the GM had the book and understood more than the character creation rules. We, the players, only knew that "more dice = more better." We would say what we were going to do, the GM rolled the dice and told us what happened.

How confident are you as a GM?
Go with freeplay- get your players to describe their characters "He's not stupid, but doesn't see subtleties and double meanings. He is stronger than most men, but a little clumsy at times. Charming when he is not trying, an oaf when he is. He learned the bow as a child, and a sword when he could hold one, but doesn't trust horses." as well as a full back story. You okay and discuss beforehand

The players say what they are trying to do, and you give a % in your head- the lower their roll the better they do/less they fail by. If they try something they have to come up with a reason from their background why they can do that.

Having given everyone a shot at suggesting the ones that meet all the criteria, I will now interfer.

Chivalry and Sorcery does what you want. It is generic Western in it's focus (Knights, Wizards, etc) and fills all of your requirements.

If you are willing to think outside the box, consider Sengoku. It is Samurai, has a well detailed culture, is not strictly fantasy but is definately alien to the average player. Lots of movies for guidence.

If your tastes run a bit strange, Empire of the Petal Throne. Few books, PDF format, and an extremely detailed but very alien type environment.

"HarnMaster. I love the combat system in Harnmaster. It is fun to play, and tactics make a difference. The magic and religion system are good also. However, the game is based on the world of Harn, but it is fairly easy to pull the game from the world. The downside is that you need three books to play. There is the main rulebook, and then a book for magic and religion."

An awesome RPG. Harnmaster is a d100 skill-based system that uses graphic wounds rather than hit points. If hit, you compare the impact (+ modifiers) of the weapon to the armor of the location hit (yes, roll for location!) and then get a graphic wound result. So, for example, an arrow hit might cause a deep penetrating wound and bleeding.

"In combat, each injury is tracked individually, rather than subtracting from a pool of Hit Points or Life Points. More serious injuries introduce the risk of a character being knocked unconscious from shock, being instantly killed, or (optionally) losing a limb. A character may also be killed or knocked unconscious by blood loss or a combination of lesser injuries. Unhealed injuries penalize a characters actions, including combat actions, reducing their overall effectiveness. Each injury heals at a different rate, depending on its severity, and open wounds have the potential to become infected, slowing healing and possibly causing death. Permanent injuries- either in the form of amputated or otherwise lost limbs- or attribute penalties caused by poorly-healed injuries are also a possibility. The combat and injury system is quite lethal, compared to many roleplaying systems. Even for veteran characters, combat with a skilled opponent or a sneak attack by an opponent armed with a modest weapon can lead to death in a single strike; an unarmed blow to the neck or a bowshot to the eye can be fatal."

The combat system is also a give-and-take system in which the attacker chooses the style of attack (All out attack, basic attack, cautious attack) and the defender their style of defense (counter attack, all out defense, etc.) and then roll against each other to get the result -- sometimes the attacker can get hit by a good counterstrike, etc.

The rest of the system can be a bit crunchy, it's all d100 based and you improve your skills through using and practicing them -- no experience points or levels. Want to improve your climbing skill? Go climbing! The magic and religious magic systems are also skills based, and burn essentially mana points (fatigue) or use "piety points" to get your religious magic to work. You get piety points by praying, doing works for your god/church, etc. All in all a great system that can be used in the Harn setting (a low-magic dark ages/early medieval setting) or a not.

link

harnmaster.us

There is one other thought that came to me: Anima RPG. NO levels, period, and a fairly generic western-european fantasy world.

The combat is a little… involved, unless the GM takes the reins and just tells the players to roll dice (GM tracks all modifiers for all players). Thing is, it's a d100 roll high system, with open-ended dice, so it's possible to get attribute+skill+die totals well over 250.

There are rules for summoned monsters, fates, etc. Whole book is $50, but that's a PHB and DMG combined.

Basic Roleplaying fits all your requirements. The rulebook is all you need, its a heavily playtested, award-winning system and has been the engine for other award-winning games such as Call of Cthulhu, Runequest and Stormbringer.

Its modualar, you can bolt on as much complexity as you require and fits the description of never being too soft on players. You can die, but, with this system, its not so deadly that you cant use it for a long-running campaign, (especially if you decide on certain options).

It contains two separate magic systems, as well as a science fantasy system of 'mutations' (from the Hawkmoon rpg), and you even have Superhero and Psionic rules included. Equipment through the ages, all the tables collected at the back of the book, and lists of antagonists, including, an 'Alien' template, a Jedi Knight, etc., etc., and you can painlessly transfer all your BRP material over, including any RQ monsters, Elric and Hawkmoon beasties, even Great Cthulhu himself, if you so wish.

Theres online support via the Chaosium website, and you can even dowload a fairly hefty 'lite' version for free, all your character sheets, etc., and theres no truth to the rumours of it being somehow 'tied' to Glorantha rules-wise, or that players persistently are able to exploit the rules as written.

As far as other generic systems are concerned, theres Rolemaster (which I like, but its difficult to translate to anything other than a Tolkienesque setting), and theres GURPS, (which is clunky old-school) and the Hero system (which is even clunkier). Of the rules-lite generic games, theres new kid on the block, Savage Worlds, which is fast play and has a 'cinematic' feel to it, and good for pulp gaming because of this.

BRP, on the other hand, is playable AND versatile, even if youre a casual gamer, theres not a lot of pre-game GM effort required.