"'Black Powder' rules" Topic

Got my copy of 'Black Powder' about half an hour ago! First impressions: well, even if the rules are no good, the piccies by themselves will be worth the cost alone! Lots and lots and lots of lovely photos of high quality figures from a range of periods between 1700 and 1900 – many from the Perry twins' and other well known collections.

There seems to be a good juicy amount of text, that a quick glance through seems to be engagingly written. The basic rules are not that long, but there are lots of additional rules and other material. Plus some interesting looking game reports.

Anyway, I'll do a speed read and get back to you about the content itself later on. But after just half an hour of ownership, I'm one happy shopper so far!

OK, further impressions, after a closer look:

Being a fan of the aesthetic appeal of wargaming, look and presentation of a rules book is everything to me – far more important that the actual rules, just as the look of the actual game is for me far more important than the game-play! And, so far, despite only owning the book a couple of hours, 'Black Powder' is hitting all the marks for me.

The pictures are indeed stunning. Not a dud amongst them. Whilst the subjects of some are familiar, most of the photos themselves appear to be new. Figures portrayed depict all the periods concerned, from the War of the Spanish Successsion in the early 1700s through to the Sudan in the late 1800s. The painting, basing and scenery are all top-notch, without exception. Photo reproduction is excellent – full colour, varying sizes (some quite large).

Further, there are some photos of real uniforms and equipment, as well as boxes that describe anecdotes or other information relating to warfare in the horse and musket era. These boxes do make the page count longer, but break up the text and make this a really interesting and readable book, rather than just a set of rules.

Although the rules look quite long at first glance, as mentioned above much of this is because of the boxes, examples, explanatory diagrams and pics of figures. In any case, the quick reference sheet is only two pages.

I've read the first chapter. Writing style is chatty and appealing. It has a faint reminisence of Featherstone and Grant. Some lovely touches of light humour … things like:

"Ensure the children are safely put to bed and lie safely beyond earshot. Secure the doors against the intrusion of womenfolk as yet unfamiliar with the conventions of war … Let us remember that the ideal accompaniment to the journey may be found in good brandy, fine cigars, and the companionship of like-minded enthusiasts."

"Encourage your friends to start collecting – today thay are merely friends, tomorrow they might be important allies."

"… our band of model soldiers shall stand for a whole battalion complete with officers, troopers, standards, drummers and supernumeries. Imagination must swell the ranks and add the scurrying of drummer boys, bawling of sergeants and clatter of arms."

The first chapter sets out some of the game conventions, and also discusses unit sizes and basing. It is refreshing to find they have an elegant and simple system that will allow various size bases and units … and that the Kapiti Fusliers' accepted basing and unit sizes should work just fine.

Anyway, off to Chapter 2 on Formations …. which starts: "Before our troops are ready to take part in a battle, we must learn a little drill – so look smart and pay attention!" How can I resist an intro like that?

Got my copy a few days ago… Love it.

Im off to buy hideous amounts of AWI and Seven Years War figures now…

"Ensure the children are safely put to bed and lie safely beyond earshot. Secure the doors against the intrusion of womenfolk as yet unfamiliar with the conventions of war … Let us remember that the ideal accompaniment to the journey may be found in good brandy, fine cigars, and the companionship of like-minded enthusiasts."

So its traditionally sexist then… what about those 'womenfolk' (who uses that word in the C21st?) who enjoy the hobby as well?

Got my copy today- day early birthday present!
Worth the price just for the tome itself- beautiful piccies of so many periods….the rules I cant comment on yet but just the piccies alone have got me thinking about adding a new Black Powder period to my list of projects. Hmmmm Franco Prussian war or Crimean or Anglo-Sikh or First Anglo Afghan War or Anglo-Zulu War or War of Spanish Succession or………….??????????????

Timmo,

You sound like the kind of person that makes me glad I've left the UK…I am sure that really, you know quite as well as I do that the comment about womenfolk was not really meant to 'perpetuate the subjugation of wimmin' etc, but an attempt at a little period humour. Which I'm sure that the majority of readers won't have had any problem with.

Heard of humour, have you?

I got mine yesterday and I agree, the book is eye candy to the extreme. We are going to run a 15mm Naps game next week to give the rules a test. If I like them it looks like I might fork out for a 28mm AWI army.

Timmo,

You sound like the kind of person that made me glad I've left the UK…I am sure that really, you know quite as well as well as I do that the comment about womenfolk was not really meant to 'perpetuate the subjugation of wimmin' etc, but an attempt at a little period humour. Which I'm sure that the majority of readers won't have had any problem with.

Heard of humour, have you?

: )

Thank you for that personal attack. I actually think the hobby would be richer and rather more fun if more women were encouraged to take part…

…may be found in good brandy, fine cigars, and the companionship of like-minded enthusiasts.

I don't think wargames rules ought to be condoning alcoholism, passive smoking or fun. We don't need these things in our hobby.

"I actually think the hobby would be richer and rather more fun if more women were encouraged to take part."

There's enough blokes who don't know a thing about war without adding a whole gender… ;>)

Timmo,

Not meant as a personal attack. But I do deplore the whole 'more offended than thou' politically correct approach to a discussion about wargaming rules, of all things!

And yes, of course the hobby would benefit from a more diverse membership, I don't think anyone is arguing to the contrary, which was kind of my original point!

Some people just fail to see the humour and tone in which something is written sadly… The whole book in written in that tongue in cheek style, best read whilst twirling your handlebar moustache and sipping a G&T while being fanned by the punkawallah.

Personally I love it… My missus, who hates all things related to toy soldiers, even had a look at it and thought it was a damn fine book. But then she has good taste… She married me.

Still, feel free to be morally outraged at something you havent read… Thats generally the way of some these days.

Now, who wants a torch and pitchfork? Special discounts for 'Outraged Mobs' applicable.

Not wishing to add to the "humourous" or otherwise tone of the rules, but I do think that there is a bit too much "PC" and a bit too little common sense in much of our life today. I left the UK seven years ago, and increasingly have little intention to return. I think the extract from the rules is huopur, nothing more, and I am also sure that the writers would be mortified if they were perceived as "sexist etc." just because of a few tongue in cheek comments.

But, on to the rules themselves. I do not have a copy (yet) and judging from the positive remarks here and elsewhere I will soon buy myself a set. My questions are about its adaptability, and the 'investment' in figures I might have to make if I venture into the "Black powder" era. What size of units is recommended? I would certainly consider the SYW period (or even the Jacobite rebellion). How unhappy will my bank manager become if I take the plunge. ;-)

Big P – I am outraged! Gin is even worse than brandy!

I agree with Big P (which is a rare event in itself) … more humour there … the whole thing is written very 'period' tongue in cheek by Rick, taking isolated sentence statements to condemn the rules is somewhat punative and to be honest sad!

Great rules, great read and a great game!!

Got mine too.

Lovely peice of work with very nice touches and inoffensive banter.

lighten up guys we are playing with toy soldiers!

Back on track for AppleMak

It's flexible: standard sized units are about 24 figures and cavalry units 12s. There are adjustments (in terms of numbers of dice thrown, etc) to cover the presence of larger or smaller units than this on the same table as standard sized ones (but if all of your units are the same size, then they're all 'standard' aren't they).

Still yet to read it all through, but I'm impressed so far. The ability to represent irregulars as well as regulars means I might be revisiting the Sikh Wars project I started and never finished all those years ago.

Cheers

Paul

"I agree with Big P (which is a rare event in itself) … more humour there …"

Surferdude,

Watch out… I will start thinking you tolerate me! :-)

You had time to read it all yet? I keep getting distracted by the pretty pictures…

What do you think of it? Reminds me of BKC/Warmaster a little… No bad thing there for me.

We've had a few 'real' games now and as I love WM I am finding the mechanics easy to follow although in no way is it just a shooty WM … it really does what it says on the cover it is a no nonesense set of rules for enjoying playing with toy soldiers with friends!

I don't have a 12x6 table at home, or the 28mm armies to go with it but by playing on a 4x3 in cm instead of inches and using 10mm stuff we are having a ball!

Will not be everyones cup of tea, wine or non alcoholic beverage (being careful not to offend our sensitive readers) but suits me fine :-)

Started a yahoo group for anyone interested:
link

has a link to the WLords just put up QRS downloadable version so we don't have to murder the book to photo copy it!

Having seen your fantastic WWII collection I am quite excited about what your battle reps will look like for these mate!!

We were thinking of playing some test games in 15mm with Naps and 28mm ACW… Luckliy this year we got alot of 28mm ACW stuff done… Enough for the game in the book anyway.

For using 15mm, Im thinking just use cm instead of inches and play on a 6 x 4.

Cant wait to play it… First set of big battle rules that has got me all excited since BKC infact.

Looks like the club is doing SYW or AWI in 28mm for the rules… So it should look pretty!

Mine has not arrived yet. But if they are landing in Australia and New Zealand, hopefully South Texas won't be too far behind.

Big P – cool – 15mm on a 6x4 will be great … for me too they are the first set of non skirmish rules to get me over excited for many a year!

SYW is what we have been using in 10mm so will look forward to your 28mm version!

In WI 265, there is a conversation with Rick Priestly about the development of the rules. Two quotes explain a lot:

"So it's really a make-it-up-as-you-go adaptation of the Warmaster system into 28mm."

"The truth is that Black Powder is a slight parody in so much as it's a book about gaming presented as a set of wargaming rules. That was the idea anyway."

Even if I never use the rules (which is unlikely) it is a great read and worth every penny.

All I have to do to play them properly is buy a handlebar moustache, monocle and cigarette holder!! :>)

Chad

Hmm.

Yes.

Indeed.

Quite.

Not a personal attack, not trying to offend.
However, any review of rules that specifically states that the actual rules are not important, that they playing of the game is not important, that all one cares about is pretty pictures and glossy paper, isn't very useful.

Caesar, I agree. Everything I've seen on the net about these rules are that it is a quality production, beautiful photos, the ability to do almost any period from 1700 to 1900, and has great potential. But then almost nothing about the rules themselves! How do they play? Are there issues with the rules? How are the movement, fire combat, and melee systems? It's almost like the rules are just a freebie that came with this really nice looking book!

First, I'm probably going to buy the book… just 'cuz: (A) I like cool wargame books, and (B) I want to support and reward people for making cool wargame books.

Second, I appreciate that I may never play it, since I do my own thing for Napoleonics and SYW, and I don't play Colonial/Empire periods.

But if it's a fun read and inspiring, then who knows? I never ever played the rules from the Bruce Quarrie book (probably because they were almost unplayable!), but that book sure inspired me to paint miniatures and learn other games, and I remember it fondly to this day.

Sam Mustafa

My copy has just arrived. I'd say that, if merely flicking through it doesn't make you want to rush out and buy at least three new armies, you aren't a real wargamer!

Perhaps no-one has commented how it plays cos its only been out a week…

I only got mine on Monday so gimme a bleeding chance to play a game and I will tell ya what its like!

Jaysus…

pacox63

Thanks. Looks like my bank manager will be an unhappy pixie. (With apologies to all pixies out there – no offence intended) ;-)

How does it cover army lists and points etc?

Are we going to need to buy endless campaign books?
Mick

I think as a whole wargamers are a bunch of sight hounds.Give us a great looking book, gaming table full of pretty painted whatever and we get excited. And if it excites us and inspires us to get painting and gaming again and the rules can be housed up alittle what more could you ask for.

Sam,

Thats exactly the type of gentlemanly exchange encouraged in the rulebook. Sounds like your exactly the type of thouroughly sporting chap at which this rule book is aimed.

I have started reading though the book myself and love it. It is the best wargaming publication I have read to date and the hilarious pre-war tone has me hankering after tartan trews and a smoking jacket.

The game is written for massive 28mm collections and vast gaming tables. But as far as I can see, the deep table is really only to facilitate the potentially very rapid and unpredictable movement rate. The figure scale and basing are actually not too excessive, not that different from General de Brigade for example. So the long table and large number of units seems like more of choice than a must, although the long table will allow the potentially speedy movement to result in some spectacular flanking moves ans the sense of surprise and uncertainty they are trying to capture.

I am sure it would play well with just a few brigades a piece, but on a very small table (e.g. 6x4), I think the unpredictable movement would not be there, and games would be a straight up scrap.

Anyway lookg forward to reading the experiences of the early adopters.

This thread has a number of more detailed examples of the rules – which sound intriguing!

TMP link

How does it cover army lists and points etc?
Are we going to need to buy endless campaign books?
Mick

They give sample units from various periods and template units that are generic and grudgingly included a mechanism for creating a point system if you are so inclined.

The norm I think would be more like this: "Ok, your union forces get 4 standard regiments, 2 large regiments and 2 batteries of artillery. Because of this scenario, they'll get the 'newly raised' ability. How about 2 level 7 commanders for them (a bit inexperienced)."

Thanks Malcolm

Covering 200 years of warfare with one rule set is a real achievement. Can anyone give me an idea how a game of Napoleonics would differ from a game of Franco-Prussian war?

I think I will buy them too.

Can someone tell me how small/big a unit can be, while still playable?
My SYW units are 20 figs mostly.

Covering 200 years of warfare with one rule set is a real achievement. Can anyone give me an idea how a game of Napoleonics would differ from a game of Franco-Prussian war?

Napoleonics units should all have the form square ability.
The Franco-Prussian armies, with breech-loading rifles, would have a range of 30" compared to the Napoleonic musket 18".

It might be correct to give all Franco-Prussian units the skirmish ability. If you want to make the infantry fire more lethal, give all the units sharpshooter too.

Basically, it has guidelines and you can tweak all the units as you see fit to get the right feel for how to perceive the period (and that scenario in particular).

Rifled foot artillery has a range of 60" so it has a medium range of 30" which could hurt alot. Napoleonic artillery has 48" range.

They have crude, pre-Maxim machine-gun rules, suggesting that the arrival of the Maxim, as a true machine gun, ended the black powder period.

Caesar said: "Not a personal attack, not trying to offend. However, any review of rules that specifically states that the actual rules are not important, that the playing of the game is not important, that all one cares about is pretty pictures and glossy paper, isn't very useful."

No offence taken, Caesar. However, to put the record straight, my OP was neither intended to be a "review", nor necessarily to be "useful". It was instead a gleeful sharing of enthusaism based on very favourable first impressions … no more or less than that.

And, yes, I do care deeply about the pretty pictures (though glossy paper doesn't worry me so much!) because I am first and foremost an aesthetic player. And these rules (from first impressions) certainly do seem to cater for my type of wargamer.

Can someone tell me how small/big a unit can be, while still playable?
My SYW units are 20 figs mostly.

So when you play you decide that 20 figures represents a standard sized unit.

You might decide that small units are 10 or 12 or really anything a bit less than 20.

I almost have to buy the rules now. I have invested so much time in reading this thread. The rules sound great! If I can find someone to play, I can use my ACW 28mm. I really need to paint up my cavalry now.

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

Warlord now has a quick reference sheet for download on their sight.

So do the girls have to wear a handle bar mustache, monocle and smoke cigars too?

Just asking is all?

No, they just have to be familiar with the principals of war.

Right-
I love Warmaster, and hate with a passion that {three line expletive deleted rant} is BKC/CWC etc.

So- are they just Anglo Saxons in Shakos/Kepis/Tricorns?

It shares Warmaster ideas on mechanics but it certainly isn't WM with muskets …

A few red flags have popped up while reading the rules:

1> Movement is 'no nonsense', meaning that there is no turning or wheeling. Pick up your unit and move it in any direction you like and face it in any way you like (so long as no model moved more than it is allowed). I suspect that my playgroup will want to require wheels and turns if only because 'no nonsense' movement is counter-intuitive.

2> Skirmishers that are not disordered can always evade enemy troops of the same type and the charge ends at the point where contact would have been made. Skirmishers therefore are certain and secure roadblocks. We'll see how easy it is to exploit this and frustrate.

3> There is no morale advantage to being formed up, no morale disadvantage to being in skirmish. We'll see how this plays and will likely be giving skirmishers minuses to break tests or formed troops a plus.

So am I right in thinking that the rules don't specifically cover the various conflicts? I just organise my force as I think best to represent various conflicts. The only real difference is weapons?

Am I also right in thinking that a line of infantry is the same throughout the entire 200 years, and that there is no variation for more open ordered formations as the period progresses?

Looking at the playsheet, the basic move for infantry is 12", for cavalry 18" and for an officer on foot it is 36". However units can move more than once in a turn – up to three times in fact. So a unit of infantry could move 36", a unit of cavalry 54". That's 4'6". An officer could move 9'. Is this right?