| BullDog69 | 03 Nov 2009 10:12 p.m. PST |
This is a bit out of left field, but wondered if any of the great minds of TMP could shed any light on this. I have a vague recollection in (I think) a Frederick Forsyth novel of an oblique reference to an abortive coup (codename 'Operation Clockwork Orange') which was almost attempted in the UK to overthrow Harold Wilson in the 60s. Though I am pretty sure I read of this in a novel, I seem to recall that it was remarked on as having been a matter of fact, not fiction. If my brain serves me right, a battalion of Paras were on their way into London to seize power and Mountbatton was going to form a temporary government. Apparently the coup was called off when the Guards refused to back the attempt. Is this all nonsense, or is there a kernel of truth in it? I have tried looking into it on the internet, and though there are various references to it as a disinformation campaign etc, I have not had a lot of luck in determining if the military coup aspect was really planned. I know there have been persistent rumours that MI5 investigated Wilson and some even claim he was a KGB stooge, but I would be fascinated to learn if anyone else has heard any references to any attempted military coup, or can give some details. |
Inquisitor Thaken  | 03 Nov 2009 10:17 p.m. PST |
True or not, I love stuff like that. On a similar note, I remember reading that stuff declassified in the late 80s indicated that the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff had actually met to determine who they would back (congress or president) if Nixon refused to step down. Seems they voted to back the Congress, and, of course, nothing came of it, but it makes you wonder how far away we really are from the days of the Praetorian Guard hacking Caligula to death, then dragging Claudius from behind a tapestry and proclaiming him emperor. |
tinned fruit  | 03 Nov 2009 11:26 p.m. PST |
There's a series called "A Very British Coup" which covers the same sort of ground but set in the 1980's. |
| donrice | 03 Nov 2009 11:28 p.m. PST |
I never heard of it but Google is my friend. ;) There is a Wikipedia article: link And that article has an external reference to some statements made in the House of Commons on 1/31/1990 by a junior defense minister, acknowledging that a project with that name existed although its scope did not include smearing politicians. There's a lot more hits if you Google "Operation Clockwork Orange": link |
| BullDog69 | 03 Nov 2009 11:39 p.m. PST |
donrice Yes – thanks for that. I also found those, but they all seem to refer to an alleged smear campaign and to have been connected with Ulster. Maybe that's all it was afterall. It would be damn hard to keep such a military operation quiet all this time! |
| General Monty | 04 Nov 2009 1:46 a.m. PST |
Interesting that you should start this thread as I always thought there was real potential for a coup-type game set in 1970s Britain based on this
link Similar to the 1930s era civil war games which are all the rage these days, just set in the 1970s. |
Pentaro  | 04 Nov 2009 2:06 a.m. PST |
makes you wonder how far away we really are from the days of the Praetorian Guard Far away? In Spain that happens every 30 or 40 years! |
| Ben Waterhouse | 04 Nov 2009 3:58 a.m. PST |
You may want to read this chaps biography
. link Pip Pip! |
Jay Arnold  | 04 Nov 2009 4:37 a.m. PST |
Hmm, wonder how much disinformation/deception it would take to get the units involved to believe that "the other guys" are Quislings/Traitors/Infiltrators, etc. 3rd Infantry Regt. vs. Marine Barracks Washington, maybe? Various Federal police forces swooped up in the excitement? |
Martin Rapier  | 04 Nov 2009 4:59 a.m. PST |
"I would be fascinated to learn if anyone else has heard any references to any attempted military coup" The coup never got as far as being attempted, however the rumour mill has been rife for years with stories of how it was planned. It was even known about in the 1970s (why do you think Jimmy was planning a coup in 'The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin'??) Poor old Harold Wilson, spied on by both MI5 and the KGB. |
| BullDog69 | 04 Nov 2009 6:02 a.m. PST |
Martin Rapier Not a man I have much sympathy for, to be honest! |
| flicking wargamer | 04 Nov 2009 6:53 a.m. PST |
From another source I dug up: This (Operation Clockwork Orange) was the 1976 operation that right-wingers in government, especially MP Airey Neave and disinformation officer Colin Wallace, were involved in to make out that leading politicians, especially Labour's Harold Wilson and Denis Healey, were Soviet spies, an outgrowth of the campaign to blacken Provisionals. It ultimately led to Wilson's surprise resignation, and the securocrats blaming it conveniently upon the Soviets' leading spy in MI5, Peter Wright apparently aka HUNT. On a side note, How to Stage a Military Coup: From Planning to Execution by Ken Connor and David Hebditch, has, scattered throughout, a fictional account of a military overthrow of the British Government. Lots of interesting stuff in that one. |
Inquisitor Thaken  | 04 Nov 2009 6:55 a.m. PST |
Jay Arnold "Hmm, wonder how much disinformation/deception it would take to get the units involved to believe that "the other guys" are Quislings/Traitors/Infiltrators, etc." If I was in command of the Joint Chiefs, and had their backing, I don't think it would take much. Scenario: A single, hand picked platoon is infiltrated into units indigenous to Washington D.C. It assembles in civilian clothes, kills the President, and then there is a media statement that it was done by terrorists. The army is then ordered to descend on Washington to "restore order", they never even know what really happened. From there, it's fairly obvious. Traitors everywhere, and maybe even a few well planned bombings and planes crashing into buildings just to get the American people scared and looking in the wrong direction. During the police action, just keep having the "terrorists" kill the V.P., various secretaries, etc., until it gets down to whoever YOUR man is, being left in "control". Of course, you are locking down the media the whole time (much easier than is commonly imagined). Would it work? Maybe not, but it certainly COULD work. |
| The Black Tower | 04 Nov 2009 9:14 a.m. PST |
There was a similar plot as the background to Day of the jackal set in France |
Inquisitor Thaken  | 04 Nov 2009 9:42 a.m. PST |
Also not dissimilar to Seven Days In May. |
| chronoglide | 04 Nov 2009 9:42 a.m. PST |
the coup has already happened, but cos it clashed with X Factor, no-one noticed
.. |
| Buff Orpington | 04 Nov 2009 11:27 a.m. PST |
Looks like the looney brigade got to work overtime to see how many wrong guesses they could make. Peter Wright wasn't a spy, he was one of the right wing intelligence officers who convinced himself that Wilson was a KGB operator. We wrote a very poor book that a later government wasted a lot of time trying to ban. It's very easy to say that Mountbatten & Airey Neave were either trying to bring down the government or plotting a coup. Both men were murdered by terrorists. If the para's were headed toward London the idea of a fight with the guards wouldn't have put them off. |
Jeff Ewing  | 04 Nov 2009 2:08 p.m. PST |
"Various Federal police forces swooped up in the excitement?" There were over a dozen in DC when I lived there in the 80s, so it would make a pretty colorful miniatures game: Capitol Police, GSA cops, Park Police, etc., etc. I'm in the middle of Neave's Calais memoir right now. Interesting character. |
| Lion in the Stars | 05 Nov 2009 1:28 p.m. PST |
I dunno about how colorful a game any action in DC would be: many of those uniforms are near-identical! Tough call between 3ID and 8th&I. I think 3ID would eventually take it, just because 3ID has significantly more assets. There's a serious problem with such thoughts in the US: assuming that the officers take their oaths seriously, the officer's oath is "I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." First, you have to convince the the officers involved that the target is a threat to the Constitution, then you have to convince them to act *even though* they will be in violation of about 15 articles of the UCMJ, any one of which has a life sentence attached to it. Not to say it *couldn't* happen, but the fact that it hasn't happened in 200 years even though several presidents have trampled all over the Constitution and Bill of Rights should tell you how difficult a task that would be. |
archstanton73  | 05 Nov 2009 8:29 p.m. PST |
Yes the whole overthrow of Wilson was a great 1970's conspiracy theory--Which MI5 deny totally (they would of course)
..The reason Wilson resigned was that (we now know) due to his alzheimers becoming so bad that it affected his ability to be PM
As for a 1930's style civil war--Remember a society is only 3 meals away from revolution--If it had all kicked off I could quite easily see a mini civil war starting with mass strikes and infighting in the forces
rebellion in the navy, polaris being seized by militant sailors etc etc.. All good stuff!! |