 angelbarracks  | 03 Nov 2009 4:00 p.m. PST |
I am thinking about doing the great redoubt as my next project once HOOGY is complete. I see that Osprey have no campaign book listed for Borodino, can anyone suggest some useful reading on this battle? An idiots guide with lots of pictures is my prefered style… |
| Steven H Smith | 03 Nov 2009 4:51 p.m. PST |
Might try BORODINO--THE MOSKOVA: The Battle for the Redoubts. I note a sale price at edwardrhamilton.com but check around for a better price before you buy. Big Al |
| sergeis | 03 Nov 2009 5:03 p.m. PST |
1812 Borodinskaya Panorama. Moscow. Izobrazitel'noe Isskusstvo 1982- pretty good for small book with entire panorama with explanations, other contemporary paintings, incl Faber du Faur.
Borodino 1812. Moscow , Mysl' 1989- great volume, very detailed descriptions of the battle, hourly maps, tons of pics.
Borodino, The Moskova . The battle for the redoubts. by F-G Hourtoulle. Histoire and Collections 2000 Paris
written by Frenchman ( need I say more?) BUT with many illustrations pilfered from above mentioned Borodino 1812- so not THAT bad… |
| Steven H Smith | 03 Nov 2009 5:24 p.m. PST |
Sergeis, Of course, Borodino 1812 (Moscow: Mysl', 1989), is the VERY BEST BORODINO BOOK. Absolutely beautifull, one of the high points of Soviet publishing – but almost impossible to obtain! Now if I could just get my copy back from Nev!!! Hi, Nev. <;^} Big Al |
| sergeis | 03 Nov 2009 5:33 p.m. PST |
Now see, Sir, THAT was a HUGE mistake! That book should be chained to the shelf in your library, NEVER to be taken out.
Of ones on the par with it I would rate recent Sokolov's Napoleon's Army… |
| Steven H Smith | 03 Nov 2009 5:37 p.m. PST |
Sergeis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. |
| Theword | 03 Nov 2009 5:56 p.m. PST |
C Duffy's Borodino and the war of 1812 is pretty good. I picked up a paper-back copy years ago for next to nothing new. I also have BORODINO--THE MOSKOVA: The Battle for the Redoubts too, and while it was pricy (think I paid about $70) it's brilliant in terms of uniforms etc… essential reading for the war-gamer I would say. Cheers, TW. |
| sergeis | 03 Nov 2009 6:06 p.m. PST |
@ Theword- I have to disagree here on uniforms- those pics are worthy of 3yo…
While I respect C Duffy for "With eagles over Alps" his work on 1812 is not very reliable- IMHO. |
| sergeis | 03 Nov 2009 6:23 p.m. PST |
May I suggest an unusual source here- Faber du Faur's "With Napoleon in Russia". Despite the fact that it is a book of illustrations by Dutch doctor in Grand Armee-it is literally the best thing after photographs. If you look at the background of drawings of Borodino you will see some redoubt earthworks details- especially on the one where Murat is fleeing Russian quirassiers. BTW as for that discussion on Berezina that got out of control- just check out illustrations from No81 onwards- no words needed. The book should be available and consists of illustrations by Faur in Brown collection- I once had a privilege of holding them in my hands… I do have the book ( in Finnish!) that I got as a gift from curator… |
| rmcaras | 03 Nov 2009 6:26 p.m. PST |
tell me more about the Sokolov's book on Napoleon's Army….. |
| nvrsaynvr | 03 Nov 2009 6:37 p.m. PST |
Steve, all you have to do is ask! Have you cleared shelf room? |
| sergeis | 03 Nov 2009 6:46 p.m. PST |
Oleg Sokolov "Armiya Napoleona" Publishing house Empire Sankt-Peterburg 1999
ISBN 5-93914-001-7
This is the seminal work on the subject, by the leading Russian Napoleonic historian, president of Russian military-historical association and founder of military reconstruction in Russia. 585 pages, superb illustrations on uniforms, many paintings used are quite rare, orders of battle, biographies of many generals. It is in Russian. |
| sergeis | 03 Nov 2009 6:57 p.m. PST |
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| WKeyser | 03 Nov 2009 8:32 p.m. PST |
The best new and accesable work is The Battle of Borodino by Alexander Mikaberidze. Great research and a great read. Of courss Nafzigers work is also outstanding, and Duffy is also really good.
William |
| Theword | 03 Nov 2009 10:40 p.m. PST |
"@ Theword- I have to disagree here on uniforms- those pics are worthy of 3yo…
While I respect C Duffy for "With eagles over Alps" his work on 1812 is not very reliable- IMHO." Does anyone else think that's slightly derisive and certainly at least borderline offensive? I'm not normally the target of such comments on this message board so I'm not sure how to take it. Anyway.. |
| Steven H Smith | 03 Nov 2009 11:30 p.m. PST |
TW, Sorry, I don't find the statements 'slightly derisive' or 'borderline offensive'. Sergei complains of the CGG uniform pics in the first instant, which may not be everyones cup of tea. Others have not liked Duffy's Borodino work – everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I do not think it is Duffy's best work by a long shot. Newer works are much better – just my opinion. Big Al |
| Steven H Smith | 03 Nov 2009 11:31 p.m. PST |
Nev, Just messin' with ya'. <;^} Big Al |
| Theword | 04 Nov 2009 2:19 a.m. PST |
Was just the whole 3yo thing.. I'm.. not. Yet I like the book and found it really useful. I guess I'm used to a more considered approach to communications (professionally anyway). Cheers, TW. |
| olicana | 04 Nov 2009 4:29 a.m. PST |
Hi Angel Barracks, No book suggestions other than those above. But I've recently stood on that piece of ground – and took some shots – look under the 'holidays – the military bits' label on the following blog:
olicanalad.blogspot.com
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| angelbarracks | 04 Nov 2009 4:53 a.m. PST |
Cheers olicana, this is a nice shot: picture |
| sergeis | 04 Nov 2009 3:05 p.m. PST |
@ Theword- you certainly misunderstood me here. The Russian uniform illustrations in the Hourtoulle's book are very poorly done. ( I am specifically NOT looking at French uniforms here). Colors are WAY off- compare for example pink ( sic!) on the Novgorod Cuirassiers with deep dark red of Kiel's, sometimes there is very Imaginative piping and flags.
He does not provide a single source on the Russian uniform plates and very sketchy notes on the back for the French. His order of battle for French is quite detailed, Russians are quite sketchy. And what is most disturbing- he is using a ton of pics by Russian painters- some modern- not a word of provenance or author. The "apex" of his handy work is illustration of "French battlefield hospital". Hmm- THAT looks familiar- isn't this an illustration by Sergei Gerassimov to Tolstoy's "War and Peace"? Gee, that must be Andrey Bolkonskiy on the table! French hospital??? 'Nuff said.
My beef with Duffy is that he comes off as a rabid anglophile- so anything Russian to him is bad , barbaric and doomed to failure from the start. By his account it is a miracle that Russians are not speaking French now.
In "Eagles over Alps" he still casts Suvorov as a weirdo and drunken bum- however he HAS to acknowledge that Suvorov beat the living tar out of every French army sent against him, even in retreat… |
| sergeis | 04 Nov 2009 3:13 p.m. PST |
@Olicana- comments worthy of an Englishman on you blog about Moscow. Hmm- I found London worthy of those…
And you are incorrect- there is a Monument for the Soldiers of Grande Armee at Borodino. Years ago when a German tourist asked where is a monument to Germans that fought in Russia during WWII- Russian guide replied that it is in Aushwitz… |
| 138SquadronRAF | 04 Nov 2009 3:37 p.m. PST |
My beef with Duffy is that he comes off as a rabid anglophile- so anything Russian to him is bad , barbaric and doomed to failure from the start. By his account it is a miracle that Russians are not speaking French now. Since this is one of Duffy's first books it is understandable that it is not his best. But I'd argue that Duffy did developed a respect for the Russians within 10 years when you get his book "Russia's Military Way to the West" and his "Eagles over the Alps" shows considerable respect for the Russians. I suspect the problem is that with the Borodino book he relied on Anglo-French sources. Sorry I don't have the book to hand as I write this to confirm mu idea. |
| sergeis | 04 Nov 2009 3:56 p.m. PST |
His "Siege in the age of Vauban" portrays Russians as some Turkish child eating monsters that took fortresses with sticks and stones. "Eagles over Alps" is very well written, BUT still portrays Russians as maltreating French POWs and rapacious to very friendly Swiss.
Well- should not have attacked us, when we are walking away ( not retreating)- now we have to also feed you???
Sorry, when cossacks are VERY hungry- they will strip somebody's vines and boil grapes for soup… |
