"warhammer rank&file query" Topic

Hi everyone.
Just slowly starting to get into WFB.
Love the fluff, stories and the mins.
The rules seem pretty smooth, but I have one problem.
I can see armies marching, moving, even charging in rank and file, but cannot stand how they fight.
Example; If I have a unit of 10 greatswords charge (2 ranks of 5) only 5 can attack while the other 5 just stand there.
Is there any other rulesets or houserules that allow everyone to fight, sort of break ranks into a big melee, then reform for later movement?
Thanks
Jason

The rear ranks are represented by the combat resolution bonus rather than by the actual attacks of the soldiers.

The "big block" style of play is critical to the WFB rules system – I don't think you'll find any mods which break the unit into skirmish formation for battle. If your looking for an "everyone fights" type of rule set, Lord of the Rings might be a better choice for you.

Agreed about LotR as an alternative. WHFB (and its historical counterpoint WAB) more closely simulates historical combat than the "swirling melee" you see in Hollywood movies, so having the rear ranks fight too is not a part of the design aesthetic. For which I am glad of (the "swirling melee" battles of Hollywood is just another reason I have issues with the film industry).

Damon.

JayPeel, actually it is worse than that. If the enemy has initiative (by spell/magic item or army ability) and kills 3 out of the first rank of 5 as you charge, then only 2 of yours get to fight.

It is an abstraction you have to accept if you want to play with formed units of individuals.

As suggested if you want a big skirmish type game in the Warhammer genre then use the Lord of the Rings rules or Mordheim, otherwise go with a skirmish based system like Celtos or the new Confrontation AotR.
The other option is the "Impetus" style game where the figures are mounted on element bases which have specific combat factors and abilities, and whether there are 6 or 10 figures on the base is irrelevant.

Great
Thanks for all the info.
I think it may be Lotr or Celtos for me.

Why not try "Armies of Arcana"?

It's a generic fantasy rulesystem with lots of popular fantasy armies (3 kinds of elves, dwarves, undeads, orcs, goblins, sevaral kind of humans, monsters, etc).

The rules allow you to change formation from RaF to skirmish and viceversa.

The main book has all the rules, magic system and more than a dozen armies, for pretty much the same cost than JUST ONE WHFB "army book", so imho is a good buy.

For skirmish, you can go for Mordheim (free download) or "Song of Blades and Heroes" from Ganesha Games (about 5 or 8 dollar download iirc)

Hope that helps.

Really. I always take casulaties out of the rear ranks.

Warhammer casualties (in the first rank) are felled before they can fight back, so out of the 5 models in the example, if 3 are killed the remaining 2 can fight back. The actual models are left in place, casualty models are removed from the rear to represent models in the back ranks stepping forward.

Yup they get to step forward but for some reason they seem to forget that when they do should be attempting to stick their sword/spear into someone.

I am with the poster on this since if your unit of Swordsmen (20 models strong) are charged by a single rank of Cavalry (5 models total) and you lose all five front models you get no attacks back at all.

Plus depending on whether or not you gave that unit a Standard Bearer you could be testing to see if you rout at a -1.

In the above case of ten GreatSwords and you lose the front five and no Standard Bearer you will be testing at a -3 and at -2 with a Standard Bearer. Either way they likelyhood of them passing is slim and they get ran down.

Then that small unit of Cavalry which is still at five models then heads off to do this all over again.

And have you ever seen 5 horses move towards you at a canter? Not even at a gallop, but the ground shakes, and I felt like finding a nice big tree to hide behind!

A lot of the way Warhammer Fantasy is built seems to be about right (at least based on those crazy folks in the SCA and other medieval re-creation groups).

But seriously, the knights hit your front rank with say, 16 attacks. Roll 4+ to-hit, and 8 hits. S5 v. T3 = 2+ to-wound, so there's 6ish wounds. Those Empire Greatswords have a 4+ save, so maybe 3 fall. The 2 survivors swing back with 5 attacks on a 4+ to-hit, 2 or 3 hits. S5 v. T3 again, so 2 or 3 wounds. The knights have a 3+ save, so one falls. Knights inflicted 3 casualties, no rank, but have a standard, for CR of 4. Greatswords inflicted one casualty, had a rank and standard, CR of 3. Greatswords lose combat by ONE, and are testing on the General's leadership 9 or 10. Not too likely to run.