| raducci | 28 Oct 2009 3:32 a.m. PST |
Ive always understood that Frederick the Great is given credit for this innovation.
So what's this I read about it being a Russian concept from Peter the Great's fertile brain during the GNW?
Or is this just the well-known Russian tendency to claim credit or the inventions of others such as Television (when everyone knows it was invented by an Italian) |
| Keraunos | 28 Oct 2009 3:52 a.m. PST |
define horse artillery. It's as much about the usage on the field as the speed of the gun being towed, or the gunners being given transport. Galloper guns in the 30YW?… |
| raducci | 28 Oct 2009 6:12 a.m. PST |
"define horse artillery."
Now there's a question. Go to the Naps boards and write the Austrians had/didnt have HA and see what reaction you get.
My definition: artillery that could keep pace with the cavalry (though could be deployed with infantry) and which the gunners were mounted on horse back and which tended to have lighter guns than FA.
Probably a flawed definition.
So, did the Russians have it first? |
| docdennis1968 | 28 Oct 2009 6:28 a.m. PST |
Having all the crew mounted is one of the most important aspects of defining Horse Arty in the Horse and musket period! There are other things, less defining, of course! |
| ioannis | 28 Oct 2009 7:38 a.m. PST |
During the SYW, Russian cavalry regiments were given foot artillery batteries for support. This made an impression on Frederick and he gave artillery support to his own cavalry as well. Only, in the Prussian service, the gunners were for the first time given their own horses to mount, enhancing the speed of movement of the whole battery. The Russian gunners were on foot… Thus, traditionally, HA is defined as when the gunners are also mounted (on horses, or carriages as for the Austrians in the Napoleonic era), and for this is what Frederick is credited for. |
 Der Alte Fritz  | 28 Oct 2009 7:43 a.m. PST |
…not withstanding the fact that Frederick's horse artillery had a dismal service record. I believe that it was captured or wiped out twice (once at Kunersdorf). They seemed to have performed OK under Prince Henry's command. |
| Shagnasty | 28 Oct 2009 7:49 a.m. PST |
Didn't Prince Rupert make use of a "galloper gun" at some point during the ECW? |
| dotte2009 | 28 Oct 2009 1:24 p.m. PST |
The Russians certainly had 'horse artillery' during the GNW. They were attached guns like they used in the SYW and already mentioned. But like the SYW guns, both Russian and Prussian, I don't think they should count as real horse artillery, certainly not by the definition you give. All of these were not capable of operating at the same speed as the cavalry – the guns were simply too heavy. So the Russian did certainly have it before Frederick – Frederick wasn't really very innovative. But it questionable if the Russians were the first to do this. They were probably the first to do it in a systematic way, i.e. each unit had some, but probably not the first overall, i.e. ECW/TYW period galloper guns. The other thing that is certain is that it didn't work and was not yet good enough to be like real horse artillery. The Russians used it in the period 1708-09 but then left them in storage, at least AFAIK. |
| crogge1757 | 28 Oct 2009 3:44 p.m. PST |
It's a Russian invention, really. But employed as "horse bataillon guns" only. Prussians turned into an independent battery system during the 7YW. That's were it all started.
See 1759 organizations at
link |
paints his first three ships from the starter set.
