"Resin vs. Lead for Vehicles - Round Two Question" Topic

Based upon previous responses from people to my inquiry on the 15mm Sci-Fi vehicle topic, it appears that there is a strong preference for resin vehicle bodies, hulls, and turrets, with metal detailing bits, e.g. weapons, and other small parts.

I can understand that a bit, since resin is more lightweight, and you can get nice detailing from the molds.

However, I was a little surprised at the predominance of the preference for the resin material, given the fact that so many vehicles are currently being produced in metal, which is perceived by some as being the more durable substance.

So, I would like to ask you all for a bit more input, if you will indulge me on the topic (no doubt, other manufacturers will be interested in the results as well for their ranges).

From my research on the subject, and discussions with others, it appears that lead seems to run about the same as resin, from a materials cost standpoint (depending upon the types used, when purchased, commodity fluctuations, etc.). Therefore, it would appear on the surface that the costs for the miniatures should be about the same.

However, when you factor in resin wastage, and the ability to melt down and recast metal miniatures that don't come out perfect the first time around, it seems that casting in lead may possibly be less expensive than in resin. Metal casting can also be done more quickly, since the lead hardens much faster than the resin.

So, given that, do you all have a strong preference for resin over lead, a moderate preference, or is it just a minor one?

If the miniatures look really nice, will you ignore what they are made from, and purchase anyway, or does the material they are made from have a huge bearing on your final purchasing decision?

I'm very interested in the subject, since I need to make a decision on the material to use for our miniatures ranges, soon.

For vehicles, I will purchase them either way if I like the casting, but much prefer the resin, mostly due to issues relating to the weight.

For aircraft that will be placed on stands, I much prefer resin (again a weight issue) and will avoid buying metal aircraft if larger than 1/285 scale.

I prefer troops be metal, as the weight is an asset here. I will avoid plastic and resin troops as a rule.

Resin vehicles, certainly, but metal tracks and wheels where applicable. I have had horrific issues with tracks disintegrating in my fingers as I try to put them on.

I prefer resin for the larger vehicle because metal is quite expensive now-a-days, given the high demand for tin. When vehicles get in the larger scales- particularly 15mm and higher- the manufacturing costs may be consistent metal vs resin, but the material costs start to take their toll.

With Cold Navy, I got out before metal started really going crazy with cost… Now, I absolutely agree with Ravenstar's decision to go resin with the Cold Navy ships. Metal for the larger ships become quite prohibitive to be cost effective.

Why do you think Privateer Press is going to plastics for their Heavy Warjacks- after practically promising they wouldn't when they first started out?

I am all for mixed-media models. Smaller parts in metal, larger pieces in resin. Durability really isn't much of a concern for me, because I am not tossing my minis around and I take care in handling and transporting them.

Weight isn't a factor as well, but mainly for shipping not my own transportation. Lighter models means I spend less on shipping in the long run.

Also, I wonder if resin is all that less reliable now days. Resin tech is improving all time and gets cheaper and cheaper as it gets stronger and stronger. Metal prices are getting nasty.

-Eli

Privateer's decission was a very adult decission if you ask me. I have talked to their production head and to hear him tell it there decission to go plastics wasn't just about metal costs, it was about production quality. There were just a lot of issues with large models in metal that could be overcome by switching to another material/method. In this case, that material was plastic.

-Eli

TGA, I assume that your company's liability insurance provider is okay with the idea of your products being made out of lead? (Or by "lead", do you really mean "pewter"?) Just askin'….

Not sure on the metals issue, since the final cost for that is up in the air.

I have seen prices listed as being about the same for lead/tin/other mixes, and no-lead Pewter, to 1.50X – 2.0X the cost of white metal (lead alloy mix) for the Pewter.

For small, lightweight parts, non-lead may be better, since the additional cost will be marginal. For the hulls, turrets, and vehicle bodies, if we decide to go with metal, some lead will probably be included, since my guess is few will want to pay twice as much for a tank, even if it is made out of Pewter.

At the end of the day, you have to do what is right for your business to be profitable. I like resin, but I buy metal vehicles as well. If you ask I would say resin and metal parts, but when faced with only metal, the material will not make me walk away, but an insane price may. The issue is getting the right price and production mix, something that is never easy.

Jeff

Most 'pewters' include some lead. White metal mixes are not all lead, but do contain some, and the mix can have a significant effect on both the price and casting quality (due to flow rates, heating temperature, cooling rates, etc).

Resin has its own health issues.

There are some issues with cooling rates for larger blocks.

Having worked in both mediums, I must say that the costs associated with resin are higher than those of metal when you factor in TIME. I can cast 3 to 6 metal bodies in the time it takes to cast 1 resin, not to mention the mess you have with the mixing process, etc.

Stephen

The metal vehicles I've bought have tended to have very large gaps when assembled-- even from some very well-regarded manufacturers on TMP. There's also a distinct metal texture and "lumpiness" to features that I'm not very happy with. Well-sculpted resin is very crisp.

With resin you get a very good detailing, precisely-fitting parts, and a lightweight model that won't break a flying/grav stand.

That's not counting its impact on price. While my experience is that resin is cheaper, I would be willing to pay slightly MORE for a resin vehicle due to the features above. That's assuming all else is equal and that the resin sculpt takes advantage of the better medium.

Now PLASTIC, on the other hand (that is, injection-molded polystyrene like WGF, GW and others use) beats resin on detail, precision fit and weight. Of course, I realize that the cost issues are prohibitive, but I don't doubt that in the long run we'll see the costs become more reasonable for manufacturers.

Oh almost forgot: I do agree that metal parts are very good. Small pieces lend themselves to metal.

While my experience is that resin is cheaper

As mentioned above, while the material cost for resin is (considerably) cheaper than metal, the labour involved is higher with a lower production rate.

The casting quality for metal v resin can vary considerably. Particularly with metal, the design of the model can have an effect. We have recently modified some of our figures such that we can now drop the metal temperature. The result is less shrinkage during cooling and an increase in crispness of casting quality. In contrast I have seen some very soft/'lumpy' resin casts, plus while it may bend, metal doesn't crack/chip/break/shatter like a resin casting.

When you have a choice between plastic or resin in 15mm, I always opt for resin. Plastic just feels cheap when gaming and just feels too light.

Now on to resin vs metal for vehicles. IMO resin has it all over metal when it comes to 15mm for the main parts. Metal unless hollow is just too heavy. One of the big benefits to 15mm is both price and weight. If you opt for metal, then of course the weight factor goes away.

I can understand from a manufacture standpoint that metal might be preferred, but from a gaming standpoint resin is preferred.

The casting quality for metal v resin can vary considerably. Particularly with metal, the design of the model can have an effect. We have recently modified some of our figures such that we can now drop the metal temperature. The result is less shrinkage during cooling and an increase in crispness of casting quality. In contrast I have seen some very soft/'lumpy' resin casts, plus while it may bend, metal doesn't crack/chip/break/shatter like a resin casting.

Very good point-- yeah I've seen some badly-done resin.

The weight factor is secondary but also there (mostly for basing flying/hovering units). I'd certainly buy a well-cast, well-sculpted metal vehicle. The detail and quality are what I'm buying, not the manufacturing process.

But speaking in general, from manufacturers with excellent reputations and with the minis I have in my hand, resin produces better minis. It's just that simple.

And plastic usually beats them both (though of course I have seen some pretty terrible plastics).

Honestly, I really like the new battlefront tanks with resin turret and hull, with the *plastic* tracks/skirts/MGs. Mostly for the thinness of the plastic skirts and the attachment rail.

I haven't had good luck with large metal castings: almost every single one has been warped enough that I couldn't completely straighten it out, from every manufacturer.

So, put me down for resin hulls and alternate material details.

However, I was a little surprised at the predominance of the preference for the resin material, given the fact that so many vehicles are currently being produced in metal…

I'm not sure I'd agree with you there, Top Gun. Just from memory, it seems that the vast majority of 15mm vehicles are being made in resin. The only manufacturers I can think of that are making vehicles entirely in metal are GZG and RAFM (might be a couple of others -- Irregular?).

In resin (or resin with metal details), you have:

Old Crow
Brigade Models
DLD (*sigh*)
QRF/Freikorps
Khurasan
Rebel Minis
Peter Pig
Combat Wombat
Force XXI
Shieldwall UK

I'm sure there are others. Even Battlefront makes their vehicles in resin. Seems to me that the preponderance of production is in resin, not metal.

Resin tends to be brittle and suffers from bubbling defects internally and externally.

Metal weighs a lot.

Oddly neither Metal nor Resin gives you better detail and proportions than hard plastic.

I like/own primarily metal vehicles. I much prefer hard plastic (injection molding) for my aircraft.

I would look very favorably on hard plastic vehicles scaled to my present armies.

mjc

Resin, as a matter of cost- resin or mixed material vehicles tend to be cheaper. If there was no price difference between the two I would likely have no preference.

-Will

In resin (or resin with metal details), you have…
QRF/Freikorps

No, we are all metal, except for the helicopters. We prefer the 'feel/heft' of a metal item, unless it's on a flight stand where it can kill most scenery on the dive… :-)

All metal? Try:
Skytrex/Old Glory
Quality Castings
All the smaller/older tanks from Peter Pig are all metal

Ah, good to know! That you for setting that straight.

I've been wondering if you're planning on expanding your sci-fi line at all? I have a pile of your aliens and they're nice pieces. Anything else in the works?

Umm… I couldn't possibly mention it (partly as it hasn't got beyond lots of drawings and a turret…)

We have just released the new modern Germans with G36, which make nice low-tech sci-fi units. Just contemplating adding a pack armed with the G11.