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"Refitting in the field" Topic


11 Posts

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Comments or corrections?

Furt0120 Oct 2009 3:21 p.m. PST

I am wondering whether or not mid 1700s companies were refitted on the battlefield or were they limited to the ammunition they carried into battle? Thanks in advance.

rmaker20 Oct 2009 6:54 p.m. PST

I've certainly read of instances of battlefield resupply of ammunition in the French and Indian Wars.

Personal logo timurilank Supporting Member of TMP22 Oct 2009 10:09 a.m. PST

The ammunition carts would be positioned between the two battlelines. Emptied, they would cart off the wounded to their next life.

Cheers,
Robert
18thcenturysojourn.blogspot.com

Furt0123 Oct 2009 3:44 a.m. PST

Thanks for the replies.

Do you know if they had dedicated ammunition bearers, delivering from the wagon to the line?

Would the ammunition have been crated?

docdennis196823 Oct 2009 12:07 p.m. PST

Who would be detailed to go to a certain point and get reserve ammo? What a good question! Or did someone bring it to the firing platoons? I assume we are mostly talking Europe here and not FIW usually! Drummers and Fifers?? Likely one or more of the better informed will let us know shortly!

Furt0124 Oct 2009 3:12 a.m. PST

I'm glad someone else doesn't know either!
This is for a skirmish level game by the way, where I hope to limit the amount of ammunition available, but with the chance to gain a little during the fight.

Peter Constantine24 Oct 2009 11:55 p.m. PST

I am wondering whether or not mid 1700s companies were refitted on the battlefield or were they limited to the ammunition they carried into battle?

The standard Prussian infantry cartouche had compartments to hold about eighty cartridges. Before 1741 each musketeer was issued with just thirty cartridges. This was then increased to sixty.

We know that at Chotusitz (1742) the Prussians fired 650,000 musket rounds at the Austrians (who lost 5,000 casualties from all causes). On average each Prussian soldier therefore fired 38 rounds. Some units would have been more heavily engaged than others but even so, it seems that sixty cartridges per man was considered sufficient to see them through a day's fighting.

I do recall reading about a battle in which the musketeers did run out of ammunition and the drummers were set to collecting cartridges from the dead and wounded and carried them in their upturned drums. Anyone else remember this?

Personal logo timurilank Supporting Member of TMP25 Oct 2009 2:21 p.m. PST

If you are dupicating a skirmish action, then "refitting" should not become an issue. Your trooops would fight with the ammunition available.

At Kolin 1757, one Hungarian regiment exhausted their ammunition and drew their sabres to continue the fight against the Prussians.

Cheers,
Robert
18thcenturysojourn.blogspot.com

Peter Constantine25 Oct 2009 2:57 p.m. PST

Austrian/Hungarian infantry only carried forty rounds each so I guess they would be more likely to run out than their Prussian opponents.

redcoat25 Oct 2009 4:17 p.m. PST

Former Sergeant Roger Lamb of the 23rd Regt wrote something relevant to this theme in his 'Journal of Occurrences'.

Part of Cornwallis's army were engaged in heavy skirmishing before the battle of Guilford Courthouse (15 March 1781), at the New Garden Meeting House. But the 23rd were not, as I recall, involved.

In the attack on the first line at GCH, the British units fired off probably a single volley, according to what most accounts seem to tell us.

Lamb claimed that, during the confused fighting during the British attack on the *second* rebel line, when he was temporarily separated from the battalion (he had dashed off after a rebel officer but failed to catch him), he *refilled* his cartridge pouch from that of a dead Guardsman.

Why did he need to do this, unless he had already fired off many/most of his cartridges (about 60?)? Did the redcoats go into action short of ammo? Or was this a literary flourish?

historygamer26 Oct 2009 5:31 p.m. PST

rmaker:

I'd be interested in hearing more about what you have read regarding resupply.

My own impression of the period is that the men were issued rounds either prior to campaign (Braddock's men were issued 60 rounds per man), or prior to battle.

Unlike most of our wargames, my general impression is that the men didn't shoot as much as we perhaps portray them doing in wargames or even battle re-enactments.

Standard British cartridge boxes (or pouches) carried 18 rounds in the F&I Period. Belly boxes usually carried even fewer rounds (12?). British cartridge boxes in the AWI period carried anything from 28 rounds, to a possible 36 with the Rawles flip block pattern (18 per side of the block).

Again, it is my impression that it is not practical to bring up an ammunition waggon in the middle of a battle to resupply a battalion, as the waggons were usually far back of the lines (such as at Fort Ti, for instance).

As to Sgt. Lamb, I can believe that in the case of Guilford. But just because he refilled his pouch does not mean he was totally out, perhaps just filling in some of the holes with cartridges. He did write that account many years afterwards too, so hard to say.

Most fire fights of the period were short, and usually one side or the other gave way (their morale collapsed). That is what makes Braddock's battle so unique (two and a half hours under fire! Hardly cowards)

What I have always wondered is, where did they keep the additional rounds that weren't in their box? Haversack? Most likely. Knapsack? Not likely. Blanket roll? I doubt that too.

I agree with the above poster. If doing skirmish level, usually running out of ammo is not the worry, as your skirmish, by definition, is probably short.

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