"Why can't the US organise a half decent postal service?" Topic

Living at the remote ends of the earth as I do, I am often obliged to order from overseas, particularly if I don't want the book or game I want to cost me twice its OS price, given I could source it here.

I have bought from a variety of merchants in both the US and UK. With most UK merchants, given the order is processed on time, postal time is invariably less than a week. Doesn't matter whether the retailer is big or small, in fact I think Mark Copplestone must have some sort of record for gods despatched and received inside of three days.

With the USPS that time blows out to about three weeks on average, sometimes more. For those retailers who provide you with a tracking number, you can virtually watch your package being passed from hand to hand by US postal workers.

It's not the retailers and it's not the postal service at this end. Australia Post works remarkably efficiently in my experience. Even the much maligned Brazilian postal service works fairly efficiently. As we spend the other part of our year in Brazil, I have cause to use it often and I've never had any real problems, which is odd given how slow and bureacratic most government services in Brazil are.

Why is the USPS so tardy? Frankly I'm surprised given it's the one with all that guff about 'rain, hail and dead of night'. Don't tell it's cos it's government owned, Aussie Post, the Royal Mail and Correios are all government owned. Don't tell me it's because the US is geographically large, so are Australia and Brazil.

So what gives?

Heck, I'm not sure what to tell 'ya Rev. Jones. The vendors I order from on a regular basis ship via USPS and I can almost always predict how long it will take me to get a package without even tracking it and they arrive in a timely manner. Maybe their domestic delivery system works better than their international shipping?

Sigh -- my problem is that the US postal service is not cheap either. I dont mind it taking a month or more to get to me -- I have a mountain to paint. I just want it cheap!!!

The USPS is definitely a downside when ordering items from the US. Postage cost from the US are a killer to wargamers.

I think that USPS is one of the better services I deal with for delivery and reliablity. The only real problem I have is their refusal to honour International shipping insurances.
Supposedly there is a reciprocal parcel insurance agreement between countries.

The killer is not the actual shipping cost (that is on a par with the rest of the world) what kills it for me is the vendor minimums. Yes I will sell you a $19.99 USD rulebook, but I want $42 USD to ship it to Spain. Or even better one eBay store seller 99cents for a current Warhammer figure and $56 USD flat rate international shipping.

I think that is where the USPS bad reputation comes from….something that is actually not their fault.

What? The US have a half-decent (not great, but, well, half-decent) postal service.

You should see Germany.

I swear, living in Austria, if I order the exact same miniatures from a US and German retailer, odds are the US one will offer cheaper shipping. Because, you know, the stuff only has to cross the Atlantic, as opposed to having to go through the trouble to dropping it off across the border from Munich.

Admittedly, odds are figs from the US will take 7 to 10 days to arrive, usually. Considering they have a minimum of 6 time zones to cross, as opposed to being delivered within the same one, that compares pretty well to 4 to 10, though.

For the record, for me, ordering miniatures from the UK beats all other options hands down. Royal Mail are the only ones that are fast enough to regularly see orders delivered in Vienna within three days, and the shipping costs I pay are the cheapest worldwide [sans maybe Austria, though I've never tried national mail ordering].

Seriously. With those shipping rates, I wonder if Deutsche Post buys every single worker their personal Mercedes. Bet management get two each, at least.

USPS is no longer a government organization, Rev. Jim.

I've had a need to mail internationally, and my
postmistress told me that there would be a delay, and
it would be caused by carriers (mostly airlines).

She was right about the delay, don't know about the
reason, but her explanation made sense (too long to
mark here, but it boils down to US Gov. requiring,
in the old days, mail to be carried 'priority' by
US flag airlines. No longer true since USPS is 'private')

I've never had a problem with the US Postal Service. Stuff arrives in a timely manner.

I have had problems with United Parcel Service (UPS). The problem was corrected by them quickly, so it is not really a big deal.

Now, so other countries postal services. I spent a month in Europe (won't name the country as I don't want to upset anyone from that nation). I mailed stuff back to the US the first week I was there and beat it home.

I have found that sending stuff to the US is very patchy. Stuff going to clients in the New York area is always slow but other parts, even remote rural areas, can be a good deal faster.

Canada is my disaster area – slow and unreliable.

Well there you go, I didn't realise it was a privatised affair. That makes sense. The worst Post Office branch near me is the one run as a private franchise. Rude, sloppy and frankly, bloody hopeless. The ones that are still Aussie Post run in my area are actually a lot more efficient.

Postage costs haven't been the big issue for me although they do seem steep compared to stuff mailed from the UK. I suspect it is more a case of the retailers. Amazon charge postage and often a higher price than The Book Depository whch has free international postage, irrespective of the size, weight or worth of goods ordered. UK figure retailers seem to have more realistic shipping charges as well.

It's the delay I find ridiculous.

Actually the USPS isn't privatized. It is a government owned corporation. The "private" part of it means it doesn't receive government funds and has to make it on its own.

the "privatized" propaganda is bs in many ways. US taxpayers still pay through the nose for all the benefits and retirement of US postal service employees. They claim that they cover their own "operating expenses". Weasel words, imo. Pisses me off every time I hear that propaganda.

My experience isn't as stark as TJJCH but I'd agree that, overall, UK mail order tends to be a little cheaper, faster and more reliable than from the US.

Whatever the official classification of the USPS is, it functions as a governmental bureaucracy, that is to say it runs entirely on rules written by people not motivated primarily by the public interest and without incentive to efficiency except the very weak and indirect pressure of public outrage. I think it's an almost miraculous testament to the relative patriotism and good nature of postal employees that the USPS functions as well as it does.

In my 20+ years of experience dealing with them ( and having three friends who worked for them) they are very good within the US, it seems to be the hand off with foreign postal services that causes problems, for whatever reason. Their greatest fault is an over-reliance on systems and machinery, on those occasions when something does fall through the net anything can happen to it.

The only other postal service I have experience with is the Royal Mail which while also very good inside Britain had problems with the hand-off. The RM was undoubtedly better at handling unusual packages and circumstances. I got the impression they relied more on human brains and less on machines and rigid procedures, their service also seemed to cost more.

I just find this thread kind of interesting. My experience is that the USPS is much less expensive than the UK and France, and that trans-Atlantic mail is 5-10 (usually 7-8)days either way, except from France, where it always takes 3-6 weeks.

Why can't the US organise a half decent postal service?

Because we're too busy operating one of the world's best postal services, instead?
-Kle.

I just ordered a figure from GW on Wednesday. They charged my card on Thursday. I got the package on Saturday via regular mail (free shipping too! On an item worth $20). THe mailwoman even got out of her vehicle and hand-delivered to me!

Damon.

It may not be the best, but it's certainly better than the vast majority of services in the world. Iran (according to a friend of mine with family there) can only deliver to the town square, where you go and search through piles of post to see if one is for you. Sometimes (if you're lucky) there is an elderly person who takes matters into hand and helps sort things.

USPS certainly has its problems, but considering the size of the country I think they're doing an ok job.

Sorry, but I'm on the side that views the USPS as being relatively cheap, prompt and dependable. I've used it to ship and have shipped to me items, books and such overseas and internal within the US. All arrive, only a couple could be deemed to have been damaged and when I investigate why a package might be delayed, it always seems to be at the sender's end (smile).

Dan

My understanding is that the USPS is just about bankrupt -- typical course of action for a company that has no interest in making a profit. As Obama says, "its the USPS thats always having problems, UPS and Fedex are doing great!"

I hear that they are considering eliminating Saturday delivery now.. I talk with my local postal guy often and he says that they are a "non-profit". Also, in my town, the USPS actually contracts out to private citizens for the local mail delivery -- you basically bid for the job, and if you get it, you get the route, so I don't even have uniform mail delivery guy, but instead, we have mexican immigrant, or some such who drives around in their old beat up clunker and delivers to the house!

All those things aside, the mail system is incredibly efficient and reliable for domestic delivery in my experience. Can't say why its not so good for international. Another thing to keep in mind about the USPS is that this is the organization gave rise to the term "going postal"…

My experience with International postal services is on average very good. It's rare the package that have a delay of more than 14 days from the US (to Spain). The only one that took a long time to come was a delivery from a ancient coin dealer (3 months) and it wasn't a fault of the postal service, but a mistake in the database of the seller (it happens there is a guy that has the same name and surname than I, but that lives 300 kms from where I live!).

Customs are the real killer. The b****rds not only charge for the actual price of the goods, but they included in the VAT calculus the postal charges too! Thus if I pay, say, 100 USD and the postal dues are 50 USD, I'll pay taxes for 150 USD, not for 100… I couldn't believe it's legal, but apparently they are entitled to make that short of legalized robbery.

A.

Well I have been laid up for a long time due to health and I recently sold a lot on ebay to cover hospital expenses.

I live in a small town and work in another one. My clerks are very helpful and we know each other by name. I flirt with the femnale and talk politics with the guy. It also does not hurt to give them Christmas presents as well.

My problem is sticker shock over the new very high rates to ship overseas. They eliminated parcel post so all my Osprey and minis bulk offers are having to be sent priority flat book rate.

Onr oreder to France for $50 USD for 21 punds of miniatures cost me $96 USD to mail. Another guy in Germany has won evough Osprey to fill 5 boxes of medium flat rate boxes for an over $200 USD shipping costs. Due to these high shipping costs I will no longer to be able to sell worldwide.

Why is the USPS so tardy?

I ship a lot of my product to Europe and other international destinations and have no issues. I also ship Priority Mail. Perhaps that makes a difference instead of sending First Class.

True story from this summer.

I am in the back yard with my wife and our niece when the post man comes by. I can see him plainly while he just stops, places mail in my mailbox along with our neighbors w/o ever leaving his vehicle.

I walk up to the street and get the mail out of the box and behold a second notice of attempt of delivery of a certified letter. Which I know was sent three days ago from my school systems central office. Considering that it is normal for a letter to take four days from past experience, (our Director of Schools loves to mail everything), I was very surprised.

I walked into the house and called the local post office which was closed. I left a direct and simi polite, (my tone of voice was not happy camperish), and asked if they could actually attempt to deliver my letter to me.

Two days later I recieved a call from the postmaster who asked me if I had been home all day on the day previous to the "attempted delivery the second time". I told her that yes I was. I am a teacher and it is our first week of summer break so I stay home to recover from the year. She then asks if I had left to run an errand. I tell her no, I stayed home and enjoyed the peace and quiet. Then she asks if I had to go to the bathroom at any point during the day. Of course I say yes, and her reply is; "that is the exact time that your letter was attempted to be delivered! Since we dont have a problem anymore is there anything else we can do to serve you?"

I would love to get a postal job…

I've only had one or two problems with USPS, out of hundreds of packages sent and received. One time the carrier folded a $90 USD book in half to get it in the mailbox.
It arrived timely though, and I blame the person who packed it in a flimsy envelope just as much, if not more.

How about the fact that unless you pay for priority airmail it gets put in a container ship and it takes 14-18 days to go from the US to Australia?

I live in the U.S, and had similar problems on a periodic basis. I have ordered from Eureka directly and from an American rep and gotten the direct order first. The last time they sent me anything (a few years back, I'll say first) the order was sent via email one day and the order showed up four days later. They also corrected a slightly incorrect order in under three days once.

There have been several cases of orders from the UK getting here faster then semi-local orders but that may just be the company's service not the mail system.

I've got a lot of friends in the military but they never get stationed anywhere near the places I want to get stuff from.

Jim Jones, etc, Speaking of Mail, send me an email to discuss your Cannonfodder Brits. We can test our postal systems :) Thanks
beattie at umich.edu

To OP:

Wait a minute. When your in Australia, you say the Australian post is great, when in Brazil, the Brazilian post is great. Have you ever been in the US and used the US post when you are incountry? I live in the US, and by and large, the Post office is a great deal cost wise and Ive never had a problem with post delivery. Just saying…

While we all like to gripe, I've had very little trouble with the USPS, Canadian postal service or GB post in the last couple of years. In fact, I've always received things in near record time – and once this fall, I did receive something in record time. My main gripe is rising rates rather than poor service.

"True story from this summer."

I can well believe that and it's a pretty typical example of bureaucratic attitude. I have told people sending me things by USPS never to require a signature because I invariably have to go to the post office to get it after the prescribed three attempted deliveries even though I work from home and am here all the time. Getting signatures takes time and causes the postal carrier to be late, an infraction of the rules for which he will get in trouble whereas just sticking a ‘no one was home' slip in the mailbox will never get the carrier in trouble. The wonder to me is why a carrier would ever attempt to get a signature, he'd have to be compulsively conscientious or an idiot.

This is the fundamental problem with bureaucratic systems, there is no market pressure. If a private carrier like UPS or FedEx did this somebody in the hierarchy would solve the problem, if it can be solved, because it would make the operation more profitable and competitive and result in the person who solves the problem getting recognition and promotion. In an operation like the USPS you get ahead by seniority and not getting blamed for anything that goes wrong. It doesn't matter if things go wrong so much as that you personally can't be blamed. Blame is avoided by following the letter of the rules no matter what the result.

It's not anyone's fault, that's just the point, the fault is a system which has insufficient force keeping it efficient. Bureaucracies are constructions of rules and no amount of rules are a substitute for some sort of pressure for efficiency.

Just wait til you see how well the govt. health care system runs…..

Everyone that bitches about the USPS better hope it never goes private and they don't live in a good size town or metro area. I'm sure there are dozens of firms just dying to deliver mail in small towns and villages in the boondocks (sarcasm mode on).

Keep in mind that the USPS does not get to set its own prices, chose its routes or decide where it wants to have Post Offices (Congress does).

There are large parts of the US that would not have any postal service if it was being done for profit (unless you want to pay UPS/FedEx prices for every letter, magazine or package) and not even they cover everywhere as they are out to make money.

Bitching about delivery time, unless something exceptional happens, is pretty silly also. So it takes you a week or two to get something. Go paint some figures (smile).

Dan

"There are large parts of the US that would not have any postal service if it was being done for profit"

Yes, exactly, and that is what makes questions like these complicated with no ideal answer only attempts to find a compromise that is the least odious. In principle it is best to exert some kind of pressure for efficiency but sometimes some other goal such as complete coverage, interferes with efficiency and you must decide on priorities.

The military and government itself are examples. It would undoubtedly be a great spur to efficiency if you could choose who would supply you with government services or if a nation had several military establishments to choose from but these systems would be manifestly undesirable in other ways.

You do realize that when the USPS delivers to a foreign address, which I take from your post you are in another country, the USPS are not the ones who actually deliver it to your door.

They deliver it to YOUR postal service, who then delivers it to you.

Maybe your packages are getting slowed down at that point in the delivery route.

Whaddya mean we can't set up a half-way decent post office?

link

I've driven past this place a number of times.

I think the USPS does a pretty good job. I regularly receive packages here in Arizona from Europe within five work days.

Anyone remember the phrase "Please wait 4-6 weeks for delivery" whenever you ordered something?

Those days are mostly gone, I consider that a win!

Don't start praising FEDEX just yet. Last few times I have had something sent to me through them they would only try deliveries between 10 and 2 during the week, even if it was a requested Saturday delivery or no signature. They refused to leave the package and I had to wait for them to try 3 times before I could go to the distribution center, located across town with no public parking spaces, to pick up the package.

International shipping speed is a product of price. If you pay more, it does not have to wait for a full container before it gets put on a slow boat for a cruise half way around the world. Higher fees gets it on a plane, but unless it is Express Mail your package has to wait for a full container. If nobody else is shipping stuff to Australia from wherever the item is shipped, you are going to get a delay.

Actually I have gotten lucky sending stuff to Australia so far. Must be a larger volume of stuff from the DC area headed that direction.

Of the three Fedex, UPS and USPS, Fedex has the worst service in my area.

As Flicking mentioned I too have had several packages from them not delivered and returned to the manufacturer. I will not even use some distributors who only ship Fedex.

Of the three Fedex, UPS and USPS, Fedex has the worst service in my area. As Flicking mentioned I too have had several packages from them not delivered and returned to the manufacturer. I will not even use some distributors who only ship Fedex.

That sounds like my experience with UPS. Their company name is United Parcel Service, UPS for short. But I know that their true name is Universally Poor Service. Unfortunately this doesn't come with the demon-controlling aspects of true names because knowing this hasn't allowed me to get better service from them.

I think the USPS is a pretty good deal. For me their delivery service has overall been fine; I've taken issue with the surliness of many of their clerks, but that's a different union. I do agree that they are rune like a government bureaucracy and therefore the only incentive is to not get blamed for failures.

Don't start praising FEDEX just yet. Last few times I have had something sent to me through them they would only try deliveries between 10 and 2 during the week, even if it was a requested Saturday delivery or no signature. They refused to leave the package and I had to wait for them to try 3 times before I could go to the distribution center, located across town with no public parking spaces, to pick up the package.

Flicking Wargamer you can pay for the premium service of appointment delviery if it is shipped through FedEx Ground Home. If the shipper sends it signature required, regardless of what you want they (the driver) has to go by that. Otherwise they will loss their jobs/contracts. Also, unlike UPS and USPS the driver is held financially responsible for all packages without signatures. I don't know the details, however a call to the 1800 number and ask to talk to the local terminal for any instances like you mentioned.
Rudy Nelson, it is company policy to hold all three attempts for 10 business days before sending back to the shipper. They are a delivery company, not a warehouse.
I know for a fact if you call the 1-800 number and talk to the local delivery terminal they will set up a 4th attempt. Also, maybe another delivery location? You might not be at home but call and request an alternative delivery address. Just a couple of comments.
And for the record I only allow FedEx and USPS at my household.

The USPS is one of the best in the world. It provides usually fast service, within one of the large geographic areas, at rates that range from bargain (first class letter postage) at best, to merely competitive at worst (overnight service, no more expensive that what you get from UPS or FedEx). By contrast, the other postal service I am personally familiar with, the British Royal Mail, struggles to cover a fraction of the geographic area, and a mere 5th the population, yet charges around 50% more for domestic service, AND seems to have a strike every other year. And British mail is, relatively speaking, an excellent postal service in its own right, its not like Italy or something!!

People who bag on the USPS don't know what the frak they are talking about.

Something I've never understood is delivery times in the US. Back in the 80s, I worked for a major insurance company. The office I worked in covered all of Tennessee and Kentucky. We had a package of 1 to 3 pounds going to each of the 700+ insurance agents every day. A package from Murfreesboro to Louisville (a little over 3 hours drive time) would take 2 to 3 days. A package to Nashville (30 miles) took 2 to 5 days and a local package took 2 days and sometimes took up to a week.

I had to personally carry certain mail to a specific clerk in the back of the sorting room everyday and sometimes watched these people…still couldn't figure out why I can send a letter 200 miles faster then 10. Mail from my mother's house can take 3 to 5 days to reach me and we live 10 miles apart in the same county. (shrug)

Something I've never understood is delivery times in the US. Back in the 80s, I worked for a major insurance company. The office I worked in covered all of Tennessee and Kentucky. We had a package of 1 to 3 pounds going to each of the 700+ insurance agents every day. A package from Murfreesboro to Louisville (a little over 3 hours drive time) would take 2 to 3 days. A package to Nashville (30 miles) took 2 to 5 days and a local package took 2 days and sometimes took up to a week.

I had to personally carry certain mail to a specific clerk in the back of the sorting room everyday and sometimes watched these people…still couldn't figure out why I can send a letter 200 miles faster then 10. Mail from my mother's house can take 3 to 5 days to reach me and we live 10 miles apart in the same county. (shrug)

Well, for what it is worth, I find the mail not to be quite this bad these days. My guess would be that those delays were caused by the transit hubs the mail traveled through. Seem plausible?

I've always used US Post to ship overseas. Recently upped my rates to match the actual costs, since I was sometimes getting hosed. But I think we all have to understand that the costs to the PO have increased too. The fuel costs alone justify the increased rates, as does the value of the dollar on the world market.

I just switched to the US Post for my standard delivery within the US. Used to use UPS, but the costs were just too much, especially to small, out-of-the-way towns. Sure, ground delivery to a business in a major city might only be $5.50, but that same package delivered to a home in a small town on the upper peninsula of Michigan could be $10.50! The switch has allowed me to lower my rates overall and save money for myself, too.

Package from Germany to Texas: $65 USD

Same size, weight package Texas to Germany: $39 USD

Time to arrive at destination: equal

Tell me again how bad the USPS is?

My wife does ebay selling and sends and receives 20 some packages a week. The rates are reasonable, the service are very good

Don't tell me it's because the US is geographically large, so are Australia and Brazil.

Australia is 7,682,300 square KM compared to the US 9,826,675 sq km. That includes 2 states that are a thousand miles from the other 48 states.

As to the population, Australia has 21,262,641 and the US has 307,212,123 people, over 14 times more people. And on top of that, most of Australias population is concentrated near the coast for the most part. The US population is spread all over.

On top of that, there is a post office in every small town(to the tune of 73,570). Even Elm Hall Michigan a town of 73 has it's own post office.

Those facts make mail delivery MUCH harder.

still couldn't figure out why I can send a letter 200 miles faster then 10. Mail from my mother's house can take 3 to 5 days to reach me and we live 10 miles apart in the same county. (shrug)

Because even if it is being sent across the street. Your letter is sent to a regional sorting facility. Then it's put on a truck to the local post office then out on a mail truck. All your local post office does is give the mail to the postmen for delivery and take collect mail to be sent out for sorting.

That's the mystery. The main post office in Murfreesboro IS a sorting facility. Electronic scanners and hand sorters. The county has about 200,000 people. It's not one of the little rural post offices. We do have a few of those around the smaller towns in the county. Local mail never leaves the county (well, it's not supposed to anyway) Even if it did, it would go to the main center in Nashville, then back to Murfreesboro. The mail to Louisville goes to Nashville, then Louisville. Shouldn't be much of a difference in delivery times.

I've been doing eBay and my wargamers terrain for years, and all is well. consider what it really takes to accept, sort, and deliver your mail. I think the usps is great. and for those that want to 'privatise it', look at ups. the charges are absurd for exactly the same service as usps.
sorry, but I dont agree that there is a problem au contrare.