"Gripping Beast/Crusader Miniatures Compatibility" Topic

Getting back into wargaming after a long absence. Have never gamed 28mm before… I have just bought (and waiting for delivery) of the Crusader rules…plan on starting with a Punic army (specifically going to start with some Numidians).

Gripping Beast and Crusader miniatures compatible?

Cheers

Patonius,
I painted up 60-or-so Gripping Beast Carthaginians, Gauls and Spanish a couple of years back and bought Crusader Romans to oppose them. I haven't any to hand (and still haven't got round to painting the Romans) but from memory I found the Crusader figures quite a bit bigger and certainly chunkier than Gripping Beast's, which are probably smallish for 25/28mm. Certainly I remember looking at some Renegade republican Romans at the Border Reiver show in Newcastle and deciding they were far too big to complement the Gripping Beast figures. Others' opinions may differ but I would suggest the GB and Crusader ranges aren't very compatible. Just IMHO, to coin an abbreviation.

Appreciated. I was going to go with the GP stuff, til I found Crusader via their advertised rules….gong to order a lot to see what they are like…

Cheers

The GB figures are rather slighter than Crusaders. Better with a smaller 28mm army IMHO.

Crusader mix very well with Foundry. A&A and Black Tree don't work quite so well as Crusader, but provide a bit of extra variety of poses.

If you google Bigredbatcave and pick the Numidians tab on the right, you'll see the first units of my swelling Numidian army.

I'm afraid I personally don't like the Crusader Numidian horses all that much; I prefer to use Foundry.

Cheers, Simon

To be honest my Byzantine heavy infantry units are Crusader front rank and Beast rear ranks..they mix fine by me. There are slight differences in height and bulk but once based it isn't noticable due to the differing base thicknesess.

The thread was cross-posted to the Medieval Discussion board, for reasons that are not self-evident.

But it brings up a point already made by bruntonboy. I probably would not mix Gripping Beast and Crusader Punic Wars figures in general, but that's because Gripping Beast's "classical" ancients ranges continue the precedent set by their Early Imperial Roman range, which was to be compatible in size with Foundry's EIR. They have never wavered from that with the ancients, and bless them for it.

However, Gripping Beast's other ranges consist of somewhat larger figures. So Byzantines may indeed mix better, and if one were working with medievals, supplementing Gripping Beast's late medievals with say, infantry from the Crusader El Cid range would result in a much happier match.

Having said that, if you're starting out with Numidians, I have both, plus the Numidians that Mark Sims did for A&A. His Crusader sculpts are noticeably less bulky than the ones he did for A&A; they fall in the middle between GB and A&A. I would (and do) use his Crusader Numidians with the A&A Numidians. I would use his Crusader Numidian infantry with Gripping Beast Numidian infantry (the cavalry riders are not so dissimilar, but the horses are; the Crusader horses--by Ebob--are much taller). But I would not mix GB Numidians with A&A Numidians.

Oddly, the GB Numidian ponies are not an awfully bad match for the short and stocky A&A ponies, but the riders are off.

If we weren't such horrible lead s, we would have collectively said, years ago, "Right, you sculptors, we're not going to tolerate these extensive changes in size for proper wargames figures." And we would have voted with our wallets, and those that made silly-sized figures would have changed their ways or be out of business. But we *are* s, so we bought everything regardless, and now nothing matches well. We're ed, and it's our own fault.

Allen

And I have to say, although they're de rigeur in both 15mm and 28mm, I ame not much impressed by Numidian horses that look like some sort of fat little proto-equid. A Numidian horse should be a breed that is not far different from its descendant the Barb (less the Arab admixture):

picture

The Ebob/Crusader horses are a better match for that than the fat little A&A ponies, and GB's just don;t look like horses at all, more like some sort of… well, no known living breed, let's leave it at that.

picture

link

The Celtic ponies Si used instead are just as un-equine!

Allen

Patonius

Check out Rabid Bat's Blog for some superb Crusader Cathaginians for inspiration:

link

I am mixing some GB early Romans with 1st Corps Republicans (which are if anything just slightly smaller) but Crusader's figures are definitely bulkier.

Cheers

Garry

Allen said "The Ebob/Crusader horses are a better match for that than the fat little A&A ponies"

In my earlier units I mixed Foundry, eBob and A&A horses. They worked surprisingly well together; the differences diminish when they are all canterign around madly on a big base.

However, as I have continued with the project I've decided, though, that there are a couple of poses of the eBob horses that I don't like (the rearing one, for example), and that the horses legs just seem too long for me especially compared to the relatively small size of the Crusader riders. Some of the horses are a little fragile, too.

After an initial rush of enthusiasm for the A&A horses I found them too stocky and graceless (and their crewnmen too plump); I haven't ordered any more.

So for the final "Zama" instalment of my Numidians, around half of the cavalry are going to be mounted on Foundry Numidian horses, and the balance are going to be mounted on Foundry Native American horses, feathers and all. These are nice mounts and probably the most suitable of the lot.

Sitting Bull will not be happy as most of the ponies for his projected army have been sequestered…

Cheers, Simon

The Foundry Numidian mounts are perhaps the closest to a typical Barb that you will find--but who can afford them?!?

Allen

Hi Allen

Well happily eBay provided some at somewhat less than Foundry prices. Not much less, though :-( I managed to swap for a few more. Across all the different manufacturers I have, I'm hoping to field around 70. Some day I want to do Ruspina, Caesar's oddest battle.

Cheers,

Simon

Not sure on the economics for you Patonius but Foundry have a Christmas army sale on at the moment. You can buy individual regiments, so the 12 fig Numidian cavalry regiment is £29.35 GBP (found in the Caesarian Roman Army via the sale link on their site). Considerably cheaper than buying blisters.

Not sure how the exchange rate/postage would hit you though as I understand from other posts on TMP Foundry have some odd exchange rates.

Think I'll get the Foundry Numidian cavalry myself reading the comments above to go with my Crusader infantry.

As Patonius is in Australian, he has the privilge of paying Foundry's "rest of the world" prices. 36 pounds for the Numidian "regiment" plus 11 pounds postage works out to 82.12 AUD (or 74.44 USD).

The sales are not so bad if you're in the UK, not so good elsewhere. Still less expensive than normal Foundry prices, but…

Allen

I personally think the Foundry Numidian infantry also have an edge over the Crusader equivalents (although I used a mix of both). They are very nice minis…

Most of these are Foundry:-

picture

There are two plump A&As at the back, and the chap with the sword is A&A too; also the front left corner mini. The figure at the rear of the front base, in blue, is Black Tree. Only the hornblower is Crusader.

Most of the below slingers are Crusader, although the second and 7th are Foundry WotGs:-

picture

I don't personally feel that the anatomy and faces on the Crusader minis are quite up to the standard of the Foundry ones.

Could well be yet another middle-age mind pffft, but…

It seems when GB started their ancients efforts, many moons ago, they said up front that they were making them to match smaller foundry figures rather than the more heroic lines?

OTOH, GB's later Byzantines (infantry anyway) seem to work well with CruMins and other lines for the era of the Crusades?

GBs Late Romans, Byzanties etc are indeed rather larger than their Punic Ranges.

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Nice minis…

Simo

Simon:

>>>GBs Late Romans, Byzanties etc are indeed rather larger than their Punic Ranges.<<<

Thanks once again (you've come through before), also helpful to see the BTD comparison as well. I wish I had access to a high-speed connection to easily browse sites like yours.

Unfortunately I reside in a "mini-black hole" regarding DSL, Wireless, etc., here in central California. Fiber-optic and broadband for miles and miles in almost any direction, but…

It's so damned frustrating, sounds an excuse for a

Michael

Hi Michael, pleased to be of help.

Back to Numidians; quite a few of these below are Crusader (you shall know them by their big lower lips!).

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Cheers, Simon