| Goldwyrm | 09 Oct 2009 10:57 a.m. PST |
I think this is all a bit of a storm in the proverbial teacup. I applaud Leland's enthusiasm, but I also understand Goldwyrm's irritation (hey Mike!). Hi Howard! Any irritation I shared here is minor in the scheme of things, but I felt it worth sharing. In hindsight, I'd rather have spent the time putting static grass on some bases.  Lots of good points in your post. Give my regards to Tony and best of luck! |
Lee Brilleaux  | 09 Oct 2009 11:14 a.m. PST |
Hey Mike! Static grass is good. I have taken to using the dried tea leaves from used teabags as an extra-crunchy sort of soil medium for my bases. It adds variety to the texture. I have about 100 WF figures to base myself. Germans, Celts, chariots, and some Spanish scutarii I converted from Numidians with Celtic shields and a variety of heads. |
| Goldwyrm | 09 Oct 2009 11:46 a.m. PST |
Good advice on the tea leaves. I'll have to add some of that to the my collection of materials, once I've brewed some tea. I'm currently painting and basing lots of 28mm SYW stuff before I return to finishing up a few hundred zombies, including the WF horde. Btw- your walled cemetery terrain piece misses you greatly, but wants me to convey that it's been happily used in several zombie outbreaks on the outskirts of Plasticville and will likely see more action later this month. |
| Lee Brilleaux | 09 Oct 2009 1:08 p.m. PST |
Excellent news! I need to make another model cemetary. Nothing says zombie spawning fun like an old cemetary! |
| BlackWidowPilot | 09 Oct 2009 1:13 p.m. PST |
"To be frank, no idea. Were those starship troopers models 28mm?" Yes, they were, *and,* the basic "powered armour" MI were *not* based on the descriptions in Heinlein's novel, but were taken from the computer animated series ROUGHNECK CHRONICLES. These were essentially a trooper in a partially armoured space suit with a bulky assault rifle (sound familiar?). The heavier suits with multiple weapon systems that Mongoose released later were metal, and are now out of production, permanently AFAIK. Mongoose did release some even larger mecha they dubbed "Ape suits," but again, these were taken from the RC 3D animated series, not from Heinlein's novel, and were even larger than a GW Dreadnought suit. They also didn't cost circa $5 USD per sprue.
"But even the scale. 15mm perhaps (though stiff competition from existing models). 28mm and we are taking skirmish size, how many sales is that? And if you want silly ig battles you may as well pick up a load of 2nd hand GW stuff, I'd say it matches the mass battles at 28mm sillyness exactly."
Different strokes for different folks. The proposal on the L&UL is simply not a GW model knock-off, but a multi-part model of greater bulk with multiple weapon and equipment options at a very reasonable price.
As for using them enmasse, I've run powered armour drop raid participation games using the Starguard rules for many years now ("Burnin' Down the House!"). I run the scenario as a sort of kriegspiel, pitting the players against a defending op-for that is of unknown strength, composition, and mostly hidden throughout the built-up facility the troopers have to smash that covers the table. It is a race against the clock to destroy as much as possible and still make retrieval, and the Starguard do not leave their own behind. I see no reason why I can't up the visual ante by running this scenario using 5150, and larger 28mm figures. 30-odd years ago when I first took up the hobby of sci-fi miniature wargaming, it was all about using one's imagination and adapting new models to the game. I see no reason why things should be any different now. 30-odd years ago when I started in this hobby, a high school kid like I was back then could afford figures quite easily, and it wasn't a huge leap to get into the game. At circa $5 USD per sprue for this proposal (along with other WF product), the present paradigm of the hobby costing more than a great many high school kids today see in a year just to get started in, can shift back in a more positive direction, IMHO making it easier for more new blood to enter our community. I for one think that such a resource as WF has provided our community through it's Liberty & Union League is a very good thing indeed.
Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net
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| BlackWidowPilot | 09 Oct 2009 1:16 p.m. PST |
"I'd love to see these in 15mm :)"
Could be tricky given the amount of proposed separate guns and gewgaws on the sprue… not impossible I suspect, but assembly IMHO could get pretty fiddly for some people's tastes…
Then again, I won't stop you from sashayin' over to the Wargames factory site and submitting a proposal of your own for such a mad scheme…. "C'mon you apes! Ya wanna live forever?!" Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net |
| Tarkin | 09 Oct 2009 6:11 p.m. PST |
@Goldwyrm- Mike, I figured you still bought and play Scifi- though with all the effort you put into your WW2 game, I would think it would be a bit more rare…. :) |
SeattleGamer  | 09 Oct 2009 7:00 p.m. PST |
YIKERS! I think what WF are doing is a great idea. Why not open up a customer-based suggestions box? I know, most of you are saying "I have no problems with WF at all, just those that are constantly posting about their pet suggestions." Yeah, and? You see the thread title, you pass it by. I see nothing wrond with (a) making a suggestion, and then (b) following up on that suggestion (monitoring the progress, if any) and then (c) reminding people that a particular idea is making progress,a nd to vote early and often. I would think if you proposed an idea, and then totally ignored it … that would speak volumes of your real commitment. I applaud BWP for staying the course. If y'all don't want this particular sprue, don't pre-order any. My interests stay with 28mm. Any other scale, not interested. And unless it's sci-fi or modern-day, post-apoc or involving zombies, I'm not interested. I was intrigued by those lesbian werewolves mentioned earlier, but the scale put me off. Oh … sorry if this annoys anyone, but I just pre-ordered 4 sprues of these guys. BWPs constant arm-twisting and threats finally got the better of me. |
| Uesugi Kenshin | 09 Oct 2009 7:12 p.m. PST |
Dont forget sports fans, TMP ran a poll that offered to create a "WF" related topics board and TMPers almost unanimously voted it down! Reap what you sow. Now if you don't mind…I need another cup of coffee. |
| The Real Chris | 10 Oct 2009 3:48 a.m. PST |
I for one think that such a resource as WF has provided our community through it's Liberty & Union League is a very good thing indeed.
>>>>>>>
I would hope that's a universal feeling, but it doesn't allay my concern that the sprue wouldn't be a good thing for them. How many sprue's with potentially little additional sales can they afford to tool? |
| BlackWidowPilot | 10 Oct 2009 9:28 a.m. PST |
"I would hope that's a universal feeling, but it doesn't allay my concern that the sprue wouldn't be a good thing for them. How many sprue's with potentially little additional sales can they afford to tool?"
Chris,
IYHO it will not have many additional sales. Were it a static design with little or no room for easy modification or conversion, I would agree with you on this one; the product's only attraction would be the price per unit. But that is simply not the case with this proposal. If WF produces a sprue as it is currently proposed, IMHO it will be a product with a high degree of adaptability to multiple systems, *and* be available at a highly competitive price. IMHO this versatility coupled with the low per unit retail price makes this sprue a highly attractive proposition to gamers specifically, and sci-fi model builders in general. Anecdotally, this L&UL proposal has hit 96% since I started this thread, so it would seem that just perhaps I am not alone in my perspective on the matter. Cheers! Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net |
| CATenWolde | 10 Oct 2009 10:39 a.m. PST |
Is this a representation of the planned sprue? picture The thread has 33 pages … so if there is a good representation of the art/style intended for the models, could you link to it? Cheers, Christopher |
| BlackWidowPilot | 10 Oct 2009 11:03 a.m. PST |
Christopher, that's my rude and crude thumbnail sketch of a hypothetical sprue layout for this proposal. I worked that up by using an actual WF sprue of ancient Gaullic warriors as a guide. It is *not* the official WF render by any stretch (we're still waiting for WF to free up the 3D render resources on this proposal). Here's some of my rough conceptual sketches from that thread of what the suit might look like:
picture
picture picture picture Note the separate weapons and gear, the rectangular hardpoints for mounting extra bombs or grenades, and the waldo versus powered gauntlets options. Also note the clamshell helmet/suit access with the "spider eyes" optics, as opposed to the more traditional visor. These were suggestions from other participants in the discussion, and I managed to fit them on the sprue layout sketch. Several elements of design and ergonomics continue to drive my proposal, including Heinlein's original prose, the fact that he was a product of 1950s America and the US Navy (and would have had some familiarity with deep seat diving apparatus), ballistics, and ergonomics, as well as other design elements I have already mentioned, most especially, versatility through separate weapon and equipment bits. Again, we're still waiting for WF to task the official 3D rendering wizard(s) to this proposal, so how my rude sketches and 33 pages of spirited verbal brawling will translate into that media is yet to be seen (but most impatiently awaited). Hope this helps! Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net |
| BlackWidowPilot | 17 Oct 2009 11:31 p.m. PST |
This proposal has just hit 97% pre-order commitment. That means there are 30 sprues remaining to take this proposal to 100% and production.
"C'MON YOU APES! YA WANNA LIVE FOREVER?!!"
Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net
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| DAWGIE | 18 Oct 2009 4:54 p.m. PST |
WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT OSCAR!!!!!
I have seen a lot of baffling BRAVO SIERRA appear on my screen while visiting TMP over the years, but, folks, i am completely surprised by the "poison pens" being directed a new formed, small company that makes very satisfactory, and reasonably priced 28mm toys for different genres, as well as at anyone who supports the company's projects.
exactly what has the WGF done to you, the most rabid and vocal of faceless attackers/haters OUT THERE????? stuck a gun in your face and forced you to read messages about WGF products or planed products?
taken money from you by shoving a gun into your face?
if you do not want to read messages about WGF products feel free to blow them off, hit that BIG POWERFUL BUTTON!
go ahead! hit it now!
and leave the folks who are interested in product or supportive of the company projects alone!
go chill! take a long overdue personal relief! take those passed due meds! get that knot out of your drawers!
DAWGIE amazed, yet again, by some of the folks at TMP . . .
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| BlackWidowPilot | 18 Oct 2009 7:28 p.m. PST |
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| CATenWolde | 18 Oct 2009 10:48 p.m. PST |
Are we still assuming $5 USD per sprue, 3-4 figures plus all those extras per sprue? Just doing some quick math, 30€ will fetch me 10 Space Marines, but that's about $45 USD nowadays, meaning 27-36 of these fellows (a whole platoon) for the same price. |
| Uesugi Kenshin | 18 Oct 2009 11:04 p.m. PST |
Dude! GO DAWGIE! Cat, I think you'll prob get 2 troopers plus extras per sprue from the current looks of it. Figure at $5 USD a sprue plus a discount when you buy a box, maybe $20 USD for a box of 10 troopers with lots of extras (just a guess). |
| CATenWolde | 18 Oct 2009 11:11 p.m. PST |
Okay – still a great deal! |
| Erik M | 19 Oct 2009 6:12 a.m. PST |
Still… Where are our (paid for) 6mm skeleton droids? |
| BlackWidowPilot | 19 Oct 2009 9:40 a.m. PST |
"Still… Where are our (paid for) 6mm skeleton droids?"
AFAIK they're somewhere in the WF production/tooling pipeline, but don't quote me (as I'm not an official WF spokescreature)…
Howard or Tony can best answer that question…
Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net
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| BlackWidowPilot | 19 Oct 2009 10:29 a.m. PST |
Erik M, I just PM'ed Tony on your behalf at WF, asking him to comment…
Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net
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| BlackWidowPilot | 19 Oct 2009 10:31 a.m. PST |
Cat, two (2) troopers in *hefty* power suits with (ideally) two styles of helmet to choose from with separate jump packs, Y-racks, bombs, grenades, and all sorts of add-on weapons is the cunning plan. A set of ten would be a good start… but whether it is ten or more, why limit ourselves, eh? Bwahahahaahahaahahaaa!!! Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net |
| BlackWidowPilot | 21 Oct 2009 6:19 p.m. PST |
Today this proposal just hit 98%…. twenty (20) sprues remaining to hit 100%…. pass it on….
Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net
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| BlackWidowPilot | 22 Oct 2009 7:40 a.m. PST |
I checked my messages today, and was duly informed that this proposal has reached the 100% mark! My sincere thanks to everyone for their support thus far!
Now the ball is very much in the court of Wargames Factory; official 3D renders are the next required step!
I am confident that this will be a real winner in the end, a highly adaptable product that people will enjoy! Again, my sincere thanks to everyone who has given their support to this proposal!
Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net
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