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"Anyyone recognise this artillery piece?" Topic


9 Posts

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1,680 hits since 7 Oct 2009
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Comments or corrections?

Jeremy Sutcliffe07 Oct 2009 6:52 a.m. PST

link with two other views "previous" and "next"

I assume its of WW1 vintage. It's in the "Villa Comunale" in Taormina, Sicily.

Martin Rapier07 Oct 2009 7:21 a.m. PST

Looks like a Krupp 77mm to me, although exactly which model I can't say. The shield and wheels both look a bit odd, and trail reminds me of FPW vintage artillery.

tmy 193907 Oct 2009 7:26 a.m. PST

Two candidates:

As Martin says a German (Krupp) 7.7 cm Feldkanone 96 n.A. The distinctive top part of the shield isn't always there.

link

The other candidate is an Italian 75mm Cannone da 75/27 model 1906 (also a Krupp product) again the top part of the shield isn't always there.

link

The hand wheel on the bottom front of the shield and type of wheels (as well as Martin says it just feels a bit off) make me suspect the Italian gun but the band at the end of the barrel is more like the FK 96 n.A.

Good pictures you may want to check out this database. Many the surviving examples of the 75mm Cannone da 75/27 model 1906 were modernized in the 1930's which actually makes your pictures if it is the Italian gun kind of interesting.

link

Jovian107 Oct 2009 10:30 a.m. PST

It's the Krupp 77mm as Martin said with the top portion of the gunshield removed and a broken foot rest from what I can tell from the photos. It does have an interesting wheel layout – slightly different than the original.

Jeremy Sutcliffe07 Oct 2009 1:18 p.m. PST

Thanks. That information is going to take a little absorbing.

Stuck in a park in Sicily does make the Italian variants more than favourite.

Mal Wright Fezian08 Oct 2009 8:51 p.m. PST

The gun is the export model Krupp M06 75mm supplied to Italy prior to WW1. Many were assembled in Italy. The barrel is slightly longer than the 7.7 cm Feldkanone 96 n.A. (30 calibres instead of 27) because it was developed just before WW1 when Krupp had tested some modifications.

The 7.7cm started out without a recoil system, using a rigid trail/carriage and rope brakes. But only a few had been built when it was realised how superior the French 75mm was. Therefore the German weapon was altered to a recoil gun in an attempt to catch up. But it was an early verion for Krupp and the various other gun makers like Erhardt that took part. It looked similar to the original, but with the new style recoil system and a gun shield.

Mr.Krupp and his designers got it into production quickly in 1904 because the Imperial army wanted it quickly and they wanted mass production. But Krupp continued experiments themselves and soon came up with a later and much cleaner model. Again it looked like the original as the changes were in details, but ones that counted. A change in barrel length and an easier to work breech was a feature.

Krupp tried to convince the German Army to take the later model because it fired faster and had some issues cleaned up. But the Imperial Army wanted to stick with the 7.7cm production gun as it was slightly cheaper and in production. In fact the army would not hear of changes until WW1 had started and they realised their gun had a shorter range and slower rate of fire. It had been envisaged that most firing by that type of weapon would take place within visibility and on a flat trajectory, as the armies marched and counter marched in lovely open country, with their respective cavalry waltzing about with lance pennants flying etc. As the guns would be in rifle range, a shield was needed.

Krupp/Ehrhardt 7.7cm FG 96(NeuArt) Range 7.8km on an elevation of 15deg. Shield was flat, often with a dip in the centre for the aimer to see better. Users were Germany, Bulgaria and Turkey.

Of course reality brought on trench warfare, the need of range and for some sort of indirect fire.

The Ottoman army, Italians and others, generally had the superior version of the German army gun. Pretty well all the countries that purchased the 75mm from Krupp after 1904 had the better gun. (Even China)


But experience in WW1 soon had the gunners demanding a weapon that had a longer range, better indirect fire and faster rate of fire. They could have simply put the later type Krupp 75mm into production but in the end went for the Rheinmetal 7.7cm FK16 with an elevation of 40 deg and a range of 10.7km. The sheild was improved and curved at the top as lip service to shrapnel coming from the front.

Krupp supplied a FK96/16 which was really only an improvement on the trail and breech so as not to disturb mass production, but the range was only 8.4km.

During the process of selling guns to Italy, Turkey and other countries, Krupp not only improved the 7.5cm version, but also the ammunition. The first Turkish guns were the same as the FK96, but were improved in 1910-12 to give a better range. This incorporated the M03 improvements.
On new guns the barrel was increased to 30 calibres from the 27.3 of the original and range to 8.0 km.

The main production Italian gun was the M06 with 16 degree elevation. Although it started with a mere 6.6km range, improved ammunition increased this to 10.25km. Krupp built and sold the first 39 batteries to Italy. Fortunately for Italy the Krupp factory had supplied lots of components and the Italians were able to continue production after they entered on the Allied side. The Horse Artillery version of this gun was the M06/12 and looks so similar to the other gun that as a model, you could hardly pick the difference. The changes had been mostly in reducing the weight of the trail and other parts. But in elevation, range and general appearance was the same.

Interestingly Krupp produced a 75mm FK16 (neuArt) during WW1 with a barrel length of 36 calibres. This was issued to German cavalry units in 1934 when the Rheinmetal 7.7cm FK16 was phased out. However it looks almost identical in 15mm model scale.

So from the wheels, the barrel length and the location of the gun, I am quite satisfied that it is very similar to the Krupp 7.7cm but is actually the Italian M06 or M06/12.
As all these guns were from the same general design family, they are very confusing for any observer.

Oh…and my choice of the two? I think it is the cavalry gun because of the wheels, lower (lighter) shield and handwheel layout.

Jeremy Sutcliffe09 Oct 2009 10:15 a.m. PST

Very erudite, thanks.

Mal Wright Fezian09 Oct 2009 4:40 p.m. PST

Very erudite

Huh! But…errr….I'm not an Erudite….I'm an Aussie! huh?

tmy 193919 Oct 2009 2:34 p.m. PST

Excellent, thanks as well. I had heard of the M06 but not the complete history.

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