"French Guard Horse Artillery at Waterloo" Topic

I asked this elsewhere (excited by the new Perry figs) but it was probably the wrong place to do so.
Could anyone tell me against whom the French Imperial Horse Artillery were engaged at Waterloo? Their movements etc? I have tried Google but remain ignorant.

This isn't a snipe, but anyone who hasn't got Adkins' "Waterloo Companion" should acquire a copy ASAP. It's not 100% reliable, but it does make a handy resource.

They were attached to the Guard light cavalry division, which was involved in Ney's cavalry attacks between Hougomont and La Haye Sainte.

I do have Adkins. I am abroad. Thanks for the help.

Does anyone know any more? Casualties, other details etc would be wonderful.

{Edited to remove a joking opening that seemingly was not funny.}

I really don't know if these guys stayed with the Guard cavalry units to which they were nominally attached. For instance, I thought that one compagnie d'artillerie à cheval de la Garde was sent off to the comte Lobau. The memoirs of de Pontécoulant were published late in his life, but I don't recall them being that helpful. The horse artillery in general, and the Guard horse artillery most of all, gives me a headache. One can really only ask, as Houssaye did over 100 years ago, "on ne connait pas l'emploi?"

L'artillerie à cheval de la Garde impériale – Cent Jours

4 compagnies of artillery with 4 companies of train, all Vieille Garde, each 4 x 6 lber. guns and 2 x 5½ pounce howitzers
21 artillery officers (of which 3 wounded) and 399 men (~60 casualties)
8 train officers (of which 1 wounded) and 313 men (~20 casualties)

colonel commandant l'artillerie à cheval de la Garde baron Jean-Baptiste (dit "Auguste") Duchand de Saucey (Grenoble 1780 – Paris 1849)
chef d'escadron Jean-Martin Dubuard (dit "Marin") (Nogent-le-Rotrou, Eure 1769 – Fere, Aisne 1837) – wounded by a sabre cut at Waterloo

1ère compagnie d'artillerie à cheval de la Garde (attached to the chasseurs à cheval)
capitaine Huet (St.-Symphorien, Eure 1785 – ? )
capitaine Jean-Nicolas Deniset (Avranches, Moselle 1777 – ? ) – assigned to the army headquarters
5 officers + 99 men = 104 total
-- 1ère section
-- capitaine en 2e Joseph-Marie Savarin (Paris 1777 – Paris 1831) – wounded at Waterloo
-- 2ème section
-- lieutenant en 1er Charles-Ambroise Thiry (Nancy 1791 – ? )
-- 3ème section
-- lieutenant en 2e Jacques-Marie Herbert (Le Mesnil, Somme 1787 – ? )
7ème compagnie du escadron du train d'artillerie de la Garde
lieutenant Fillion – wounded at Waterloo
2 officers + 79 men = 81 total

2ème compagnie d'artillerie à cheval de la Garde (attached to the chevau-légers lanciers)
capitaine Cercelet (Sedan 1778 – Sedan 1842)
5 officers + 96 men = 101 total
-- 1ère section
-- capitaine en 2e Paul-Pierre Savoye (Saarbruck 1788 – ? )
-- 2ème section
-- lieutenant en 1er Joseph-Louis Averos (Estagel, Pyrénées-Orientales 1787 – Estagel, Pyrénées-Orientales 1853)
-- 3ème section
-- lieutenant en 2e Antoine-Théodore de Goudonville Berdolle (Fiac, Tarn 1792 –Fiac, Tarn 1872)
8ème compagnie du escadron du train d'artillerie de la Garde
lieutenant ?
2 officers + 74 men = 76 total

3ème compagnie d'artillerie à cheval de la Garde (attached to the grenadiers à cheval)
capitaine Chenin (Clermont-en-Argonne, Meuse 1784 – Clermont-en-Argonne, Meuse 1869 )
5 officers + 94 men = 99 total
-- 1ère section
-- capitaine en 2e Alexis-Vincent-Jean-Pierre de Brocca (Montauban, Tarn-et-Garonne 1785 – ? )
-- 2ème section
-- lieutenant en 1er Ernest Franchessin (Cattenon, Moselle 1790 – ? )
-- 3ème section
-- lieutenant en 2e Philippe-Gustave Le Doulcet de Pontécoulant (Paris 1795 – Paris 1874)
9ème compagnie du escadron du train d'artillerie de la Garde
lieutenant ?
2 officers + 77 men = 79 total

4ème compagnie d'artillerie à cheval de la Garde (attached to the dragons de l'Impératrice)
capitaine Antoine Mancel (Caen 1777 – Caen 1847) – wounded & had 2 horses killed beneath him at Waterloo
4 officers + 91 men = 95 total
-- 1ère section
-- capitaine en 2e René Martin (Angers, Maine-et-Loire 1783 – ? )
-- 2ème section
-- lieutenant en 1er Lecourroyer ( ? – ? )
-- 3ème section
-- lieutenant en 2e Laurent Bellet (Montpellier, Hérault 1783 – ? )
10ème compagnie du escadron du train d'artillerie de la Garde
lieutenant ?
2 officers + 75 men = 77 total

Frayer

'I am a little confused. All the French artillery at Waterloo was Imperial. There were no emigré units with British or Prussians, nor Republican or Royal units with the French. I think you are looking for the "artillerie à cheval de la Garde impériale".'

Pompous, pedantic or what?

"Pompous, pedantic or what?"

Bad sense of humor, I suppose. Sorry.

Frayer

Frayer

Thanks for reply and thanks for the great information.

Best regards
Gerry McGinty

Gerry,

Again, my apologies for a lousy sense of humor. My wife says that I don't even have one. I surely meant no offense AT ALL.

The info was just a copy/paste from my notes. I having been playing Russians, but was thinking of working up some blue-painted little guys for 1815, since my green-painted guys are either just walking west or still at home in their regimental banya during Cent Jours. So I was doing OOB research anyway.

Kind regards,
Frayer

Frayer that's brilliant. Thanks very much!

The HA batterie detached to Lobau's VI Corps reserve was from the Naval Artillery Auxillaries (Canonniers de la Marine)- administratively attached to the Guard, but not "Guard" as such, neither Old nor Young.

I am sorry, I was not clear. As far as I know, the horse artillery company assigned to the VI Corps was from the army (the line), and was originally attached to the artillerie de la réserve under the général de division baron Desvaux de Saint-Maurice. Additionally, I thought that a company of Guard horse artillery was sent out with Domon and Subervie. I have only a little info on them, as I was not thinking of doing my blue-painted guys as from VI Corps.

1ère compagnie auxiliaire d'artillerie à cheval (4 x 6 lvr. guns and 2 x 5½ pounce howitzers)
-- capitaine ?
-- 3 officers + 70 men = 73 total
5ème[?] compagnie auxiliaire du train d'artillerie
-- lieutenant ?
-- 2 officers + 96 men = 98 total

I thought that the artillerie de la marine was all foot artillery. The could fight as infantry, man and repair ships, build and defend ports, shoot guns on land and sea – but also ride? Maybe, but also maybe it is just a little mistake in Adkin. I find the following for them for Cent Jours.

4 companies of marine artillery
-- dispatched from Brest to the Paris garrison
-- each 6 x 6 lvr. guns and 2 x 5½ pounce howitzers
-- with 4 companies of army train

6ème compagnie auxiliaire d'artillerie à pied
(ex- 2ème compagnie du 2e batallion du 1er régiment d'artillerie de la marine)
-- attached to the 3ème & 4ème grenadiers à pied de la Garde
-- capitaine Mathieu-Marius Autric, officier d'ordonnace de l'Empereur
-- 4 officers + 105 men = 109 total
2ème[?] compagnie auxiliaire du train d'artillerie
-- lieutenant ?
-- 3 officers + 111 men = 114 total

5ème compagnie auxiliaire d'artillerie à pied
(ex- 1ère compagnie du 2e batallion du 1er régiment d'artillerie de la marine)
-- attached to the 3ème & 4ème chasseurs à pied de la Garde
-- capitaine Bernard
-- 4 officers + 100 men = 104 total
1ère[?] compagnie auxiliaire du train d'artillerie
-- lieutenant ?
-- 3 officers + 116 men = 119 total

7ème compagnie auxiliaire d'artillerie à pied
(ex- 3ème compagnie du 2e batallion du 1er régiment d'artillerie de la marine)
-- attached to the 1er tirailleurs & 1er voltiguers de la Garde
-- capitaine Créac'h
-- 4 officers + 107 men = 111 total
3ème[?] compagnie auxiliaire du train d'artillerie
-- lieutenant ?
-- 3 officers + 171 men = 174 total

8ème compagnie auxiliaire d'artillerie à pied
(ex- 4ème compagnie du 2e batallion du 1er régiment d'artillerie de la marine)
-- attached to the 3ème tirailleurs & 3ème voltiguers de la Garde
-- capitaine Charbonnier (Angers, Maine-et-Loire 1784 – Angers, Maine-et-Loire[?] 1864
-- 3 officers + 102 men = 105 total
4ème[?] compagnie auxiliaire du train d'artillerie
-- lieutenant ?
-- 1 officer + 107 men = 108 total

Well, I could be so, so wrong. Please let me know.

Frayer

Frayer

Nice details I have not seen this level before, an area everyone always seems to get very vague on, I have seen so many variations on the marine units, but you seem very confident in your facts, where do you find such informations?

The artillerie à cheval with VI corps has always been so, but lots of variations as to where they came from.

I have always suspected 171 men in the 3e train compagnie is an error (maybe 117?) have you seen the original figuers?

I like the way you have looked up the history of the officiers, something I always try to do.

The "official history" of the French train is on Google (and Gallica, I think).

For the marine, it is clear that exactly two battalions of artillerists were sent to Paris : 2/1 from Brest and 3/3. The official history is silent on sending them to the front. So, I thought that there was more a draft on their men, than a detachment. But Adkin (allowing for "mis-prints") is trying to say 1/2/1, 2/2/1, 3/2/1 and 4/2/1. He actually puts "3/1" and "4/1" in one chart and calls them all 2nd battalion elsewhere.

Also, it appears that while Autric was assigned to the aux., Créac'h (that is the correct spelling) was not an artillerist in the army. The name is really Breton and the Brest marine artillery was rather localized … I begin to join Adkin in thinking of an actual detachment, at least partially under marine officers. Too bad the others have such common names. How many "Bernards" would I have to look through? Ugh!

I don't like the 3e aux. train number either. They would be tripping over each other. But, if it is a misprint, it is a very early one. I have seen a juin strength return with the aux. broken down by officers + men for each of the the aux. à pied, à cheval and train. It tallied exactly with the strange number. I am thinking they were short of cadres, and hoped to make another company with later joining leadership to help move the parc, which seems a little low on train.

You can't really do an OOB without the officers, for identification and, for me, because we play a house-rules heavy version of Sharp Practice. If I am goign to work up some blue-painted guys, I kinda need to know "who" I am trying to paint. N'est-ce pas ?

Frayer

Thank you Frayer, very useful

Historique de l'artillerie de la marine by Julien Félix Delauncy and Albert Charles Auguste Jean Guittard. Published by D. Dumoulin, 1889. 328 pages:

link

Thanks again, Frayer, both for the data and the quotation from Houssaye. And I don't think Sgt. E. was being totally serious; the title of the thread makes it pretty clear what was wanted, so anyone not able to see that ye were being humorously "pedantic" would require a surgical operation to get a joke into his skull. Now, where have I heard/read that before?