"T-34/85??" Topic

If some people, either very brave, very ignorant or just desperate were to find a T-34/85 in good working order and take it on the a modern day battle field how would it fare? Clearly against anything approaching a modern MBT would be suicide but what about using it in more of a scouting role, how would it fair against AFV's like the Bradley, Warrior or BMP? Could it take them out if it got close enough before detection? Against light skinned vehicles it could wreak havoc. Any thoughts, knowledge, game experience? I know some were used during the break up of Yugoslavia (and yes i will be searching that topic) as always these message boards are a fountain of ideas and knowledge.

Yes, the T-34/85 would take out a Bradley if it got in close – of course the Bradley would most likely see it LONG before it could get close unless it was sitting in ambush. The APC's are not designed to withstand the main gun of any MBT and the newer ammunition for the T-34/85 gun as it had better be new or I'd not want to be around when you touched one off, would be easily capable of penetrating the relatively light armor of an APC. If the APC had reactive armor – as some do, the chance goes down exponentially. Further, the T-34/85 is going to get ONE shot only before the APC fires back. The APC will destroy the T-34/85 regardless of what it fires too – even the small main gun on the Bradley will easily penetrate the relatively light armor of a T-34/85 now days. On the side the .50 M2 with SLAP rounds could penetrate, and the AT missiles would blow it completely away.

Given a good element of surprise, I guess they could take out an AFV. Of course, getting to surprise them would be challenging.

I would rather use them for a. infantry with very limited AT capability (use it against someone who hasn't seen tanks in action or training) with enough infantry support or b. building a nice monument on Victory Square once victory is secured by other means.

When I do a miniatures game of Junta, Stuarts, M1s, KVs, Shermans and Churchills will be just "tanks". Thus, there will be no problem.

T34/85s invariably came off worst when pitted against thin-skinned Ratel 90s in Angola.

"Clearly against anything approaching a modern MBT would be suicide"

I made som quick numbers on t34's against an abrams in DH/C7B-BSOCWAD, i think you'd get 15 t34's for the points on an abrams, and they would be hard pressed to even get a mobilitykill, from the sides…

The Yugoslav doctrine of 'any tank is better that no tank-especially if the other guys don't have one at all' springs to mind……obviously they won't last against well equipped opponents but the fear factor for militia/green troops facing armour for the first time should be considered……having had a 'near miss' with an APC hurtling thru' light woodland (!)- any 'tank' will scatter troops if they have no real answer to it…..
(we could here the APC moving but in the dark with no night vision equipment it was very difficult to spot until it blasted thru' the patrol -followed by some choice Anglo-Saxon words of advice!)

Quick thought- how does the T34/85 rate against a PT-76 or the Chinese equivalent (forget the designation)- a later 'scout' or recce tank, would it have better armour than a CVR(T) Scorpion or Scimitar -these having aluminium armour…?

Life expectancy on a modern battlefield would be estimated in seconds.

In "smaller" conflicts it might be useful as long as it stays away from RPG-7 and other toys. But even in the most basic places the T54/55 has replaced it.

When did the T34/85 first show up in WWII?
Thanks
John

I think the T-34/85 showed up at the tail end of .. 43 maybe? or was it in 44?? and at first in small numbers and never "fully" replacing the T-34/76 during the was as far as I know.

during the WAR .. oops

April 1944

January 1944- until 1950. Czech made ones- 1953-1958, Polish made- 1952-1955. You can find plenty of them in working order in Russia, Belarus- several owned by reenactment groups.

I think the T-34/85 showed up at the tail end of .. 43 maybe?

First encountered December 1943. According to Zaloga, Milsom, and a pile of other references I can't remember.
--
Tim

They would probably protect you if you encountered this scenario:

imgur.com/gNVkN.png

First batch manufacturered with D-5T, which had a different (shorter, blunter) gun collar, giving it a slightly different appearance…

Damon.

On the basis that a tank is still rather scary to infantry who only have LAWs etc, how does the anti-infantry capability of a T34/85 compare to modern tanks? I thought the 85mm had quite a decent HE round?

Ok,comparing abilities but detracting night vision and depleted uranium ,a guy in any modern apc would be an idiot or desperate to draw main gun fire from a battle tank.Sounds like apples an oranges ,compare primitive armed modern spec ops to old spartan hoplite ,money on spartan every time.

Pictors Studio …… rotflmao!!!!!!!!!

Just some info

the Bradleys 25mm chain gun at 1000m is better than the shermans 75 mm

the Bradleys had no problem with t 55

Lord Ghee

Major problems with the T34/85 that would make it difficult to take on even a Bradley [except from ambush] would be the inferior optics and the lack of turret basket. The latter made it tough for the loader who had to continually dodge the recoil of the gun while running around grabbing the cannon rounds. Plus the one I was in had no firewall between the engine and crew compartment. Nothing like breathing diesel fumes if you're running buttoned up.
Count Natokina.

Most T34/85's still left would have been retrofitted with better kit -sights/radio etc….If a Bradley could knock out a T34/85 then it would murder an early Leopard…They had thinner armour than even a WW2 Sherman!
A Bradley , BMP, Scorpion or PT76 would be in real trouble if a T34/85 managed to get a shot in--Their armour is very thin and barely bullet proof--The Warrior is a lot better especially when fitted with the heavy side armour..
It would also depend on the crews training and motivation--if they were well trained and motivated then they could get the most out of their tank--espetially if there are a few of them…Remember an old tank is better than none..

Thanks you ,Arc these days many people count apple and oranges as same.what if the spartans had 6 mg -42s at thermopylae and such …well what if a modern carrier deviod of air craft met Sms Westfallen …see were it goes.

Still beating this dead horsey, heh? Isn't this considered cruelty to dead animals?

I game the Yugoslavia civil war, and yes I do have T-34/85s going up against M84s(basically a T-72) and T-55s….doesn't seem to do much damage, but it can take the hits of a T-55, while M-84s blow them away…not even going to get into technical terms with sights and gun types as during the Balkan wars the troops that operated the vehicles were hardly trained and never got the best use out of the vehicle as they could have. Shooting at the right spot and at the right time, a T-34/85 could probably do some damage to certain vehicles, mostly APCs.I use Ambush Alley's Force on Force….but I'm writing a small supplement with some special stuff for "unique vehicles".

Brad :)

Brad,

You play force on force? I was thinking of trying those rules, I take it you like them?? Your thoughts?

Yep, they are excellent….only downfall is large and equally armed units are difficult to field against each other(which is kind of rare BTW). You will have to leave out certain stuff for the Balkan wars, but otherwise it is perfect for representing types of troops during this conflict. If you're interested in the Balkan wars, I have some stuff in the works for FoF on improvised vehicles, out of date vehicle usage, To&Es, vehicle stats, and a few scenarios. Hopefully this will be done by Spring of next year, but finding certain info is becoming really difficult…

Brad :)

Brad

I thought I read that FoF covers WWII as well, does it not cover vehicles from this period?

Yes it does, but I was thinking of adding or changing some stuff to help give it a right feel for the Balkans.

Brad :)

gotchya. yeah few rules survive me long before i start tinkering …