"Phil Barker Poll" Topic

How about about a Phil Barker poll:

1. I live to hear what he opines on the state of wargaming today.
2. He's OK, but not the last word in gaming.
3. Mr Barker, you sure write a lot of letters to gaming magazines, maybe you should get a hobby.
4. Never heard of him until I saw the latest TMP polls.
5. Phil Barker… I heard you was dead…

Regards, the Gorb

6. Who cares about Phil What's His Name?

I personally feel such a poll and associated discussion could get a bit personal. And neither we nor Mr Barker would benefit from that. Just my opinion of course.

"7. The Dude can't write English worth a damn…"

Actually, he can. His Alexander book is perfectly readable. He juct can't seem to write RULES in decipherable English.

Doug

Hey, Phil is a nice man and a gentleman, who has weathered his share of battles on the table and in print.

Way too personal.

I would side with the "way too personal" camp.

Im torn between #2 qnd Kyoteblue's #7

Too personal, and in somewhat poor taste.

"opines"?
Isn't that a North American tree dwelling marsupial?

I don't think a poll like this is required.

Whatever your opinions of the man, the hobby would be different without his input over the years.

Far, far, too much of a personal attack on an old man who has done a tremendous lot for the hobby.

He might not have used his full judgement when writing that letter, but that is not something unique for him.

I also think his rule writing is excellent. Not a good read, but DB/DBM are the most unambiguous rules I have read.
Could do with some explanatory paragraphs sometimes, though.

What has Phil done? Some of us have to wait a few months for mags to hit the shelves.

BTW met phil many years ago. A humble and pleasant gentleman.

"What has Phil done? Some of us have to wait a few months for mags to hit the shelves."

Nothing in particular, except write rules that it takes more than one brain cell to understand.

I spoke to Phil only once…phoned the number in the back of the DBA rulebook…he was a perfectly understandable and nice guy…

DBA got me into historical wargaming and i still play DBA after all these years…

Don't think we should have a poll on him…far too personal in my opinion…

Cheers Andy

Well, it's not like he's trying to live in seclusion. Provided we stick to forum rules, should be ok.

Can we have an option that says "Is worth reading, on matters relating to state of the hobby today, or DBA, DBM or DBMM only, unless especially worked up, except in bad going, if not recoil?"

I have to admit that a poll consisting of questions like the one suggested by James (streetline) would be pretty clever.

However, I also have to agree with those who see it as being far too personal.
I vote "no" on this one.

Cheers,
Scott

"5. Phil Barker… I heard you was dead…"

Considering Phils advanced years, I think this is in really poor taste.

I see no reason for such a poll. It would be in poor taste and could open the floodgates to other polls referring to authors of history books, inventors of game systems etc., etc. Heaven help us if someone starts polling on authors of books on Napoleon's campaigns and on Napoleonic wargames rules. I do not understand the antipathy to rule writers. No one forced me to buy WRG rules just as no one forced me to buy figures from a particular maker. If you don't like the rules, don't bother with them. No need to have a go at the author.

This is a bad idea…meet him once and he was very nice to talk with…thanked him for DBA and he was humble… he's done his share to promote ancient gaming within the hobby.

5. Phil Barker… I heard you was dead…

Harsh.

I think this whole poll would be a bad idea anyway.

I do NOT believe in polls that ask one's opinion of a person.
Or, a manufacturer, for that matter.

This is way too personal.

The Gorb's remark on "I heard you was dead" is not just poor taste,it's despicable. I hope he treats his grandfathers in better fashion.

Pull this one and try again in a few years.
Far too personal and poor taste.

I'm no fan, but posting the topic was a poor decision.

Isn't he the guy from "The Price is Right"?

…and I'm the guy with all the stiffles (sic)?

What a ing prince you are Gorb. I suppose an apology to Barker is out of the question?

Yeah. Thought so.

Enough of this already. Let's let this thread die in peace. It should never have appeared.

OK, guys, apologies all around, especially to Mr Barker.

I don't really have any idea who Phil Barker is, I just saw his name on two polls in a row so I fall under option 4.

Option 3 is taken from Rosanne Rasannadanna.

Option 5 is taken from "Escape From New York".

No personal attacks were meant, I should simply have posted a
"Who is Phil Barker and why is he featured in Two Polls?" topic without the lame attempt to be amusing about it.

Regards, the Gorb

He's no Snake Plissken, but for heaven's sake, people, have you no sense of film references? And he's no Mark Twain, but are we now devoid of literary ones as well?

Actually, I for one know what it's like to be "dead" to Phil. (Hopefully, the line "You are dead to me" is not also outside your ken.) After hosting him here in California, visiting the Barkers in their home, our spending a couple of days with them touring the Welsh Borders, exchanging Christmas cards and gifts,--I made the mistake of mentioning at a SOA Games Day that I would be writing for a "different" ancient rules system.

You would have thought that I had dropped my trousers and on the floor, right there in the Royal Armouries. Haven't had a Christmas card since!

So you can make comments about *my* being dead all you like. And when I go, I hope you will.

By the way, I have never found his rule writing impenetrable. Very precise, very logical. Often too complex to commit to lengthy sentences, but that's a flaw in the readers' abilities, not the author's.

Allen

So you can make comments about *my* being dead all you like. And when I go, I hope you will.

But I hope we will be decent enough to not have polls about how we feel about it.

Please: feel absolutely free to have one! I think that would be excellent. TMP polls are utterly meaningless, and so that would be very apt.

Allen

Perhaps you'd like to post the poll questions now, before you go?

As I think TMP polls are utterly meaningless, I think I'll pass. But I'm quite happy with the thought that someone else might.

Allen

Of course TMP polls are utterly meaningless. As such, they're an almost perfect metaphor for human existence. :)

Too personal, and in somewhat poor taste.

Yup. Reminds me of a schoolyard.
--
Tim

Yeah. Too personal. Feel like I somehow know the man.

Years ago, I ate breakfast in the booth next to him at the Lapp's Family Restaurant during an Historicon convention. Even stood in line behind him while waiting to pay our check. He uttered something in an accent so heavy I couldn't understand a word, but I joined in his laughter none-the-less. I felt as if I was in the presence of royalty--gaming royalty--until I looked down and saw that he was wearing socks with his sandals. And white socks at that! Destroyed the magic of the moment.

"until I looked down and saw that he was wearing socks with his sandals"

That is an 'Englishman Abroad' thing. Sorry.

That is an 'Englishman Abroad' thing.

Doesn't make it any less of a major fashion faux pas.

Sorry.

Apologies are not enough. English visitors need to realize that certain combination of clothing items and footwear are simply unacceptable. Socks with sandals is one of them.

We still play WGR 6th ed. Haven't found anything particularly wrong with them as far as we're concerned so why change to the flavor of the month just 'cause? I do find DBA more indecipherable than WGR, but I also have FoG and a couple of other ancients sets and would willingly play any of them.

Mr. Barker has made quite a contribution to the hobby. Some of his work may warrant criticism, but he personally does not deserve to be mocked. I vote against the poll.

This is obviously a joke. Not intended as a serious poll suggestion.

No riding anybody out of BUA on a rail, then?

I read and reread and reread and…reread and…reread…and….reread…and….

Phils's Ancient wargaming book (Airfix guide)

His willingness to be very (very) serious about ancient wargaming, but at the same time accept that an elephant, with flying ability and a greek fire projector was a reasonable description of a dragon (which it really is !) told me that this was a guy who was operating on the correct level.

I think the responses have been sort of funny. You can tell those who worship at the mans feet and those who despise his rules.

There's a lot of "piling on " going on here. I think the Gorb got the message.

I think the responses have been sort of funny. You can tell those who worship at the mans feet and those who despise his rules.

Nonsense. Why are you making this a case of 180 degree opposites, either/or?

I enjoyed playing WRG rules. I did not like the freakish control he tried to exercise over their play. I did not like the whimsical ammending process.

Example 1: The Friday night "rules seminars" at tournaments, where the judges would release the latest addenda and ammendments. These would be accompanied by "Well I got a letter from Phil…" followed by "What's the postmark date?"

Example 2: This is real, genuine and not made up. By way of an "official ammendment sheet", the rules for bodyguards was changed thusly: Page 10, paragraph 4, line 3: Delete "must". Insert "cannot".

I do not worship the man. In fact, I find a little bit about him and his rules silly. However, I cannot deny the contribution he has made to Ancients gaming.
No, my objections are to the boneheaded tastlessness of the whole idiotic poll. It's a personal attack, and should be dealt with as TMP personal attacks are supposed to be.

No, my objections are to the boneheaded tastlessness of the whole idiotic poll. It's a personal attack, and should be dealt with as TMP personal attacks are supposed to be.

No, John, it wasn't. And I do believe I apologized when people starting reading the wrong thing into my original post.

It wasn't meant to be a poll but rather a question as to why there were two polls running based on Mr Barker's (a person unknown to me) letters to Slingshot (a magazine I had never heard of).

1. "In the Letters column of Slingshot magazine, Phil Barker describes Field of Glory as:"

2. "In the Letters column of Slingshot magazine, Phil Barker counters a report that his DBMM ruleset is not popular:"

Boneheaded? Definitely, based on the reactions.

Tasteless? Based on a line about Snake Pliskin? Come on.

I am glad Mr Barker has a loyal cadre of defenders, as apparently he needs them due to some unknown group of people in the past having attacking him for some unknown reason.

So far, the only thing I have learned about Mr Barker is that he seems to be a polarizing figure for those individuals who play Ancients, and that if you post anything about him you might just as well have stuck your head in a hornet's nest.

So John, if you're still not satisfied then by all means please push the complaint button and if Bill determines my post was malicious in nature, I will happily serve out my time in the Dawghouse.

Regards, the Gorb

Tasteless? Based on a line about Snake Pliskin? Come on.

What percentage of TMPers caught the Snake Plissken (sp?) reference? I didn't. Even if I had, you are still making a "joke" about an old man dying. I call that tasteless.

Push the damn complaint button yourself.