"Do miniature companies act as a cartel?" Topic

I'm not picturing clandestine meetings in the dead of night in some stately home in the Nottinghamshire countryside, more whether, within the limited gene pool of sculptors (especially with the high upfront costs of plastics), there is a quick phone around to warn off 'competitors' of a new range?

From the way they have overlapped (Victrix and Perry) do you think that is likely?

If it's a cartel that many of them meet at Cons and talk – then yes.

Warlord and Wargames Factory don't seem to have coordinated their efforts with Romans and Celts either.

If it's a cartel, we are not doing a very good job at it.

More often, I hear my sculptor friends griping that someone else has jumped in with a range that they were thinking about making. It's not as if they don't know one another, either. Half the time they are complaining about their friends.

Although I think everyone in the industry may have agreed not to make the War of Jenkins' Ear.

No, clashes between ranges are pretty common, and they've certainly not managed price fixing….

I wish they would sort themselves out a bit instead of duplicating efforts.

Instead of TWO ranges of plastic Brits and French for Waterloo could we maybe have French for 1809 or some Austrians and Russians?

I'm thinking in particular about the ex GW / Foundry sculptors,

The positive side of the close relationship between ex 'stablemates' would be for example the 'Kiss Kiss Bang Bang' range split between Artizan & Copplestone.

Although obviously not all scupltors' work is compatable in this way, I just wonder how many ranges will never be sculpted because another company 'got in first'?

I'm not so sure.

GW seems to have taken a page from the diamond cartel, e.g. scarcity, high prices, bling, etc……

;-)

Rather missing the point that you can't have a "cartel" with one company in it….

we do not consult any one with our new releases, sometimes i dont even tell my partner in the business!
sometimes i just show him something i have recently finnished and wait for his reaction.
i like surprises.

Boo!

A cartel in such a tiny market, with so many viable substitutes. I don't think so.

15mm manufacturers definately price fix. Its no coincidence they are virtually all at the same price point, even in recession.

General Montcalm has the right of it, of course. There are really only a couple of people who own all of these different business. They do have rather stately mansions and meetings do occur in the dead of night.

They do all the stuff that you would expect. They coordinate ranges, you never find one manufacturer doing a range in the same scale as another, they price fix, you can only buy 15mm figures at one price per figure, although they do vary the count per pack so that it looks like they don't, they union bust, you can't think of any unions that have people in a miniature gaming business, they also own mining, shipping and paper companies so that they don't have to go outside the network to get anything.

It isn't quite a monopoly, cartel is the right word, as there are more than one owner. But they do collaborate. They even have their own internet so that communication is easier between them.

And we dance like the pawns we are on the strings they pull.

No, that would be illegal: link

"15mm manufacturers definitely price fix. Its no coincidence they are virtually all at the same price point, even in recession."

???

Peter Pig: £2.30 GBP for 8 foot
Essex: £2.10 GBP for 8 foot
Friekorps (QRF): £2.00 GBP for 8 foot
Irregular: £2.00 GBP for 8 foot
Old Crow: £2.50 GBP for 6 foot
GZG: £2.50 GBP for 8 foot

That's a variation of up to 25%. Hardly "virtually all at the same price point".

May be because the market is so competitive (and wargamers are so tight fisted) that few firms dare charge what they would like

I think the industry is so small, so tied to individual firm owner whim and frankly, so chaotic, that the possibility of unified catrel like behavior is somwehere between impossible and silly. The phrase used often and quite applicable here would be that getting manufacturers to act in concert for any measureable period of time would in comparison, make herding cats seem simple.

They are in a secret cabal, even the rules writers. You can tell by the decoder rings they all wear.

"Rather missing the point that you can't have a "cartel" with one company in it…".

Forge World.

"Welcome to the Forge World Website

Here you will find our range of highly detailed resin models from the worlds of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000. The models we produce currently include Imperial Armour vehicle and aircraft kits, Battlefleet Gothic spaceships as well as terrain for Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000, Warmaster and Epic 40,000.

GAMES WORKSHOP LINKS"

Of course, they have secret agreements with others too, including the metals and oil people (plastics, you know), and retail prices have remained surprisingly high, despite the huge crash in metals, and the glut of oil that is in the storage tanks, or in tankers stored offshore (supposedly, they are swimming in it, due to the worldwide economic downturn, but that has been under-reported in order to keep prices high).

Space aliens have provided technical advice on marketing, and price setting. ;-)

I smell a new History Channel special!

mmmmmmmmmm… cat herding…

Almost forgot the mention the dice oligarchy…….

Don't get me started on that one, but has anyone noticed that almost all miniatures rules, and even boardgames require dice to play (sometimes loads of them)?

It's a conspiracy…..

15mm manufacturers definately price fix. Its no coincidence they are virtually all at the same price point, even in recession.

You don't have to be mad to post here, but it helps…

You don't have to be mad to post here, but it helps…

I thought it said in the FAQs that you did have to be mad to post here?

Yeah, they're a cartel.

That's why they're so rich, from controlling the supply of a vital world product…
-Kle.

You'd have to class GW/FW as a diverse monopoly rather than a cartel.

Or a sucessful company.

If you want to judge the success of the others' cartel, stand outside a wargaming show at 8:00 and watch as their butlers struggle to unload the Lexus.

I do work in the larger scale Garage kit market . many of the manufacturers are so centered on one upmanship that they lose site of the picture. If even a rumor of company A producing "slimey monster form planet Z ". You can be assured that two or three of these will be produced within the next six months by other companies . I think it applies to miniatures also , just look at the recent Zombie and WWWII releases . Not the miniatures are poor but everyone wanting to be on the band wagon . Sometimes being the only one out there is good .

Cartel indeed! Sheesh.

I wish they would sort themselves out a bit instead of duplicating efforts.

Instead of TWO ranges of plastic Brits and French for Waterloo could we maybe have French for 1809 or some Austrians and Russians?

Who is the one who is going to say, "Naaaah. You can do the waterloo french. I will do the 1809 Austrians."

The object is to make money by producing what you think will sell, and not cater to the fringe enthusiast.
this is particularkly so in a capital intensive thing like plastic production.
Would YOU be willing to forego the "easy money" im producing Waterloo French? Would YOU instead spend $25,000 on producing a mold for 1809 Austrians?
*I* certainly wouldn't.

"If you want to judge the success of the others' cartel, stand outside a wargaming show at 8:00 and watch as their butlers struggle to unload the Lexus".

You mean the head of GW doesn't drive a Rolls?

"You mean the head of GW doesn't drive a Rolls?"

Even if he does, he doesn't man the stall at wargames shows….

Mike

Most of you folks have obviously never met them in person.

"has anyone noticed that almost all miniatures rules, and even boardgames require dice to play"

I think "The Complete Brigadier" did not require dice. Find a copy now at you local game store. Impossible! Proof that not only is there a dice cartel, but their underhanded means of suppressing games that do not require dice.

Hmmmm …. wonders if writing a dice roll randomiser for iPads would result in the Dice Cartel putting a contract out on me?

Think of all the extra weight that could be saved lugging them around to club nights and shows.

Have you ever tried to train six cats to dance in a chorus line?