"Early Albatros D.III markings" Topic

I am hoping I am wrong here, so if you can contradict me, please point me to your source.

It appears the plywood on many, if not all, early Albatros D.IIIs were varnished to a very dark color. It also appears that they did not outline the national markings in white. So what you have is a very dark background and a black cross with no outline (which you can hardly see).

Is this really historically correct? or do you think maybe the photos are deceptive or have been misinterpreted?

mjc

I've read that the colors are mostly interpretive guesses from early black & white photos. You identify the colors that are known, like the British green, the roundels, etc. then have to make guesses as to what the actual color/hue/shade of the rest are based on that.
One reason there is controversy over the cowling cover for Voss is that in most photos, yellow shows up as black.

Yep, given the prevalence of orthochromatic snaps for German aircraft shots, there's no real way of telling if the varnish actually darkened the wood, or if it *yellowed* it, which would also darken the appearance in orthochromatic photos…. Ditto for whether the cross stands out – black on yellow is obvious when looking at it, but not in an orthochromatic picture. For my 2p, I'd say yellow rather than dark, but it's no more than an educated guess – the lads over at the aerodrome forum might have something more solid. (Hell, the exact "recipe" for the varnish used knowing what that place is like – I don't frequent there often as I feel far too ignorant…. ;-) )

Best example I can think of is a piccy of Declee's Nieuport 11 in J M Bruce's "Nieuport Fighters" – it's clearly orthochromatic, and takes close examination to even realise that the roundels are three different colours, as depending on the angle of light, red, yellow and black appears pretty much black, black and black…. (The port roundels in that photo are identifiably three colour, but all three very dark, while the starboard just look a solid black disc.)

Dom.

Hi

ortho also sees slightly into the infrered, meaning a HOT panel will be a different, darker than it really is.

Contemporary accounts usually describe the geramns as "tan" or "yellow" or similar, not dark.

Rocky

What are your sources? Squadron and Osprey both show only D II's with darker wood. Also both show D II's and D III's with white outlines for the crosses.

Good point Rocky, I'd forgotten about the heat sensitivity….

Usually I go to this archive first when looking for colours of course its not all original….check the links for photos of individual aircraft all for the most part survivors….
Unfortunatly theres no colour control and lighting,Film and camara can alter the colours dramatically…..

link

theres also a good model gallery here these guys really know their stuff…

wwi-models.org/index.html

Most of the plywood tend towards a Varnished pine look(Duh cant think of anything else to describe it) some lighter some darker, yellowish to reddish I guess depending on the age, wood species and varnish used…. most I think would be fairly fresh still when new and darken in use… Pine will darken in direct sunlight over a period of time but not excessively…..

Cheers

The Germans would be using birch plywood, not pine. Birch is generally very light in color but with varnish on it would be a warm light yellow. Unless of course they stained it. If you are depicting a plane as it apeared in combat, none were likely to last long enough for the wood to darken.

I'm doing the aircraft of Lt. Karl Almenroder (Jasta 11) Early spring of 1917. The research on this was done by Clemente Balladres.

Here's the web page:

fav-club.com/fan.htm

It looks to me that they either painted or stained some of these a dark brown.

If you look at Richtoffen's Albatros D.V that he got shot down in (scored victories #58 and #59 in this plane), you will see fuselage is mostly the tan color noted above and the vertical tail plane (and maybe the horizontal tail planes) are the dark brown. So are the entire upper wing surfaces or at least that's what it looks like (no cammo on this plane at all) -- looks pretty close to the dark brown on Almenroder's D.III.

Now I'm not saying the photography tech of the times does not compromise everything I'm saying here, but it is possible my initial impressions might be correct as well.

As for Squadron and Osprey . . . nice references but not exactly the last word on anything -- IMO -- these old photos are really tricky. Really helps to have some written confirmation of the colors if you can get it.

mjc

PaulAD Yes your quite right should be birch for German combat aircraft specifically "Baltic Birch", this probarbly answers the question……

link

Cheers

Thanks ironsides2,

This certainly explains Richthofen's Albatros mentioned above. Might also explain what was going on with Almenroder's D.III.

So the only remaining issue is whether the crosses were outlined in white, red, or yellow.

mjc

How much of the RB's Albatros D.V was RED, then?…

Doug,

He flew more than one plane. The aircraft I am talking about above didn't have a drop of red on it.

mjc

Hi

As far as I know, the cross is black. On some dark surfaces it might be outlined in white. I am unaware of any red or yellow.

Rocky

Also remember just how much oil these early engines burnt and that's going down the plane. I imagine they got grubby quickly. But perhaps the well known rebuilt DVa 'Stropp' gives a good colour to work to.

On the subject of trying to figure out if the temperature of something is changing its color on an orthocromatic photo…I think some confusion has been developed over terminology. "Infrared" can refer to anything between visible red and microwave radiation. The infrared that radiates from hot objects is very long wavelength and would not focus through a lens designed for visible light. "near infrared" is very much like visible light but the human eye is just not sensitive to it. Back in college I learned photo-interpretation for agriculture and forestry. Neat stuff, LIVE plants are highly reflective in the near-infrared so we could use the photos to find sick or dying plants long before the green in the visible spectrum started to fade. I imagine this effect was not lost on those trying to find stuff hidden under nets and tarps made out of dead plants.

So, long story to short, I wouldn't try to figure out how hot something is before deciding what color to use on your models.

Hi

Why not? Half the fun for me, but then it was my day job for a while (aircraft).

There is no great issue with being wrong. No one will take your gaming piece away and smash it with a hammer!

Rocky

True enough, all of my planes are to small and none can stay airborne.