"dip dip dip" Topic

?has anyone done a side by side experiment with Army Painter
vs. Minwax Polyshades vs. future…like multiple copies of same mini run through all different methods with nice pictures to show any differences? If it hasn't alreasdy been done, it would make a great tutorial or workbench project… hint ,hint
steve

would be very interested in seeing the difference

I took the offer for some free Mantic Elves. I may just have to do this, if there is enough of them on one sprue. I have Minwax and Future, my friend has some Army Painter. This could defintely be possible.

would have to match up the army painter 3 tones to 3 suitable tones of minwax(tudor satin/ pine/ bombay mahogany?) also brown future and black future….not to mention windsor&newton caligraphy inks..(peat brown;nut brown)-sheesh what a complicated hobby
steve
it would be such a good resource ,if properly done with no bias
I would be up for doing a workbench on it if prompted and prodded

Well that won't happen, I don't have $200 USD to drop on the products to do them all, especially as I'd likely only use one of them, in different shades, after I was done.

"also brown future and black future….not to mention windsor&newton caligraphy inks..(peat brown;nut brown)-sheesh what a complicated hobby"

Not at all. There's a reason I eschew the over-priced commercial products aimed at the sort who buy GW sand and War Glue, and simply use Future with various inks. It works. It provides outstanding results. It's flexible (a peat brown mix over darker colors; a nut brown mix over lighter; blue ink over blues, if you like). And it's affordable. Not complicated. Easy as pie.

I require no comparison with smelly, hard to clean up, expensive products. So I am biased, but I get great results and have more money in my pocket; so for me, a comparison is wasteful and foolish.

However, I have no objection to others following the old maxim: "A ____ and his _____ are soon parted." Can I interest anyone in some War Sand?

Allen

Now there is a challenge – since I am sort of a researcher, I should probably design the experiment

Allen certainly has the reality of the situation down. Guys, there won't be any measurable difference. It's all Minwax. Turn away from the dark side, save your brushes, time and money and check out Future. It is a superior product in EVERY way. Take from folks who have been using it and the others for years.

Thanks,

John

Allen, I used to use Windsor/Newton inks like a madman years ago..But became aware that they are not lightfast, when I noticed some of the colors of the inks had changed and faded over the months( I used them straight out of the bottle).now I find myself relying on a future water mix, pigmented with FW acrylic artists inks- 38 colors some transparent, some opaque, base flesh, a nice white etc
link

Im actually new to this mixture but its been working out great
my next step to implement is to base the mini with a clear coat of future prior to the future pigmented wash
I have tried brush on dip but am not comfortable with it and see it a not a great timesaver as I feel the need to repaint 60% of the surface of the mini tto clean it up
…sudden stop to rambling
steve

I think somebody has done something like this, but I can't remember where. There are appreciable differences between the various dip and wash types and I for one am always interested in seeing comparisons between different painting products. I use Klear, the UK equivalent of Future, which is great for some applications. I also use GW washes, which are good for other jobs. I am not sufficiently stuck in the mud to regard either as a universal panacea. It's amazing the things people get crotchety and rude about.

If you thought any dicussion here was rude I would humbly suggest you grow a thicker skin. Future can be used a wide variety of ways. it is used by Master Modellers in painting applications. The reason folks like Allen and myself talk about Future is that most folks who use other mediums aren't aware of it. So, we spread the word. Don't like it then skip our posts.

Thanks,

John

I know Future is a useful tool and I fully understand why someone might want to let others know about it. I just think it's a bit heavy handed to suggest that anyone who buys equivalent products is a fool. Don't you?

I believe the suggestion may have been that the spending of a LOAD more money was foolish to do. Not that the person doing it was an utter fool. There is a difference. However, I'm quite sure Allen csn explain further if he desires.

Thanks,

John

I'm not sure about this 'future' v 'minwax' contest. They are different products which give different results. They are also not universally available. As far as I am aware, we can't get Minwax in the UK. There are similar products, but none of which match the famed 'tudor' shade. I must have spent more than the price of a tin of Army Painter just trying to find a suitable British alternative t Minwax-after 3 tins I gave up. Army Painter and Minwax are slow drying 'oil based' (although technically this is probably the wrong term)products which need to be cleaned/thined with white spirit (US Mineral Spirits I think). To me these products seem quite 'heavy' in consistancy – the weight of the liquid pulls the pigment down into the sculpted detail. Future, (or Klear),which I have also used, is much thinner. The effect is that of a wash rather than the heavier 'dip' and is effective in a different way. Unlike Minwax/Army Painter, Klear is relatively quick drying – mistakes are hard to rectify. The slower drying products can be wiped away for longer. So, if you can get Minwax for a lot less than Army Painter, all well and good. If you can't, then Future is an alternative method, not a substitute.

It's not meant as a contest. Its meant purely as a comparison between the methods to show how each product works. In this manner everyone has a chance to evaluate what they are looking for and determine which method is best for them. It's not meant to show what is the all around best method, at least that was what I was thinking when I said I may do it.

Just curious as to WHY anyone wouldn't choose the all around best method? Especially if it's cheaper and easier to work with.

Just a correction to the post above. Future dries in about 15 minutes. You know in about 10 seconds whether your dip is too dark or too light. That leaves you about 14+ minutes to correct any issues. I have dipped 1000's of figs with Minwax and Future. There is no doubt that Future is a superior medium to work with. That is based on extensive experience working with both.

Thanks,

John

Can anyone suggest a chain that sells Klear in the UK, please?

Thanks, Simon

by suggesting this experiment,I simply wanted to provide a nonbiased resource for novice painters to help them visually in their decision making process when pondering whether to dip, brushon, future wash or whatever…its probably my fault for having a scientific background, I should have realized that a far better resource for novice painters is the gruff voice of more experienced painters. I also prefer to work with future but in the past have tried many different methods ,which only seemed to add to my painting angst. If only years ago I had seen a side by side comparison of different methods' results,I may have avoided some painting growing pains. possibly a workbench/blogpost on future wash composition( ratio of water/amount of ink/type of ink ,whether to coat first with unpigmented future,etc.) and examples of usage might prove more helpful and less prone to incite fits of sputtering bile. While I am willing to take the word of more experienced painters, perhaps a little more detail on technique may help myself and other novice painters improve our technique and avoid foolish pitfalls

Exactly, what is best for one person is not always what is best for someone else. I'm also not one to take some "nobody on a forum's" (no offense intended to anyone here) advice out of hand. I like to have a reference to see before I do something. If I find someone suggesting something I'll research it before trying it. Hell I knew about dipping for about five years before I finally tried it, due to the excellent Bodicia workbench article here on TMP.

This can only be a good resource for everyone. It's not a competition, its a comparison.

"Can anyone suggest a chain that sells Klear in the UK, please?

Thanks, Simon"

I got a 500ml bottle in Waitrose for about £2.50 GBP a year ago, found in amongst the kitchen cleaning shelf

Phil

John L … what is the exact concoction you use? I've read a few things about "Future" but never ran across any formula of "x" parts of this mixed with "y" parts of that, etc.

Do you make up several batches (light, medium and dark shades perhaps)? Or have you found that one certain shade seems to be best overall for adding the shading and bringing out the details, without having to make up lots of separate batches.

Truly curious (and my next big painting project will be 28mm ACW figures, and I've never pained a single Yank or Reb before, nor have I used a dip, and I was thinking this might be a good place to give it a try).

Steve

Hi. I use an old pickle jar. I use about 2/3's of a cup of Future per 3 or 4 drops of Higgin's Calligraphy ink. I don't cut my Future.

I normally use only one mix. If I need it a little lighter I dunk my brush in water before I dip it in the magic wash.

I was a decent painter before. The wash has improved my painting with minimal effort. I espouse using Future due to the really great benefits it provides folks. If I found a better product I would champion it. Others can take shots about what I and others say. That's fine. I am simply hoping that those people who ARE looking to drastically improve their painting cheaply, quickly without destroying your brushes or having a smelly, messy result. I am not getting anything from doing this. I simply am trying to let others benefit from my personal experience. I have been painting for 30+ years. I also paint for a living and have extensively used Minwax and Future. I'm also very willing to help walk anyone who asks through the process if they like. So, my posts are to those folks.

Thanks,

John

@ John and/or Allen, isit consistent with both your methods that you use such a small amount of ink…?
I have been using a 50/50future/water mix,but I use about 90% futurewater to 10% ink…seems to work fine. Do you think I would get less of a muddying with less ink in the mix? Also is it worth doing a clear future wash prior to brushing on magicfuturedip?
steve

I use a Future only wash on vehicles. I know the mix is correct when I shake up my jar and the mixture appears as if you can barely see through it. I always test it. I have an extra brush filled with water ready to apply to the fig if the wash is too dark. Usually, I don't have any problems. I find it easier to add ink than thin it out.

I never had a lot of luck mixing water with my Future. However, some folks have said they use Distilled water instead of tap water.

Thanks,

John

And again, so I don't get the wrong stuff and make a mess outta everything …

Future … what exactly? There is future floor wax, future acrylic floor finish, future floor polish, but sadly, no future miniatures painting dip.

So which is it?

Many thanks.

"And again, so I don't get the wrong stuff and make a mess outta everything …

Future … what exactly? There is future floor wax, future acrylic floor finish, future floor polish, but sadly, no future miniatures painting dip.

So which is it?

Many thanks."

Living in the UK it's Klear acrylic floor finish; it's referred to in US modelling sites as Future floor wax, acrylic floor finish, floor polish,… but from what I understand theyre all the same. Bottom line is you're looking for a 500ml bottle of clear fluid – not viscous – on the household cleaning department shelf

Phil

Go with the Future Acrylic Floor Finish. It's what I have.

I tracked some down at Ocado (corporate relative of Waitrose, as mentioned by Phil); £2.58 GBP for 500ml. Will tack some on to the next grocery order!

Cheers, Simon

"I tracked some down at Ocado (corporate relative of Waitrose, as mentioned by Phil); £2.58 GBP GBP for 500ml. Will tack some on to the next grocery order!

Cheers, Simon"

… so you must be rolling in cash if you can shop online from waitrose ;-)

Phil

Not exactly rolling…

Oddly it's way cheaper there than Amazon, for example.

Simon

Well,

I seem to have lucked out. I found that MinWax makes an acrylic stain now that cleans up with water. I've had some great results with it, thinning it about 3:1 or 2:1 MinWax to water, and brushing it on with a large brush.

The MinWax acrylic dries very quickly, and gave me the results I wanted without muddying up the figure, or having to dip and shake off the excess. Also, being acrylic, there's no problems with fumes, ad no need of turpentine or white spirits to clean up with.

respects,

I thought bombay mahogany was too dark. I've been using an old can of Olympic Special Pecan with very good results:

strangevistas.wordpress.com

You can see some Chaos Marauders I just dipped there.

My ACW 15mms lend themselves to the dipping method moreso than my 15mm Napoleonics….like mixing various uniforms, especially with the Comfederates.

Is the Olympic Special Pecan a water based or enamel based wood stain product? Min Wax Polyshades has a Pecan colored stain, is that approxiately the same thing as the Olympic brand you are recommending Witterquick?

Regards,
Wayne

Enamel based. You'll need mineral spirits for cleaning, etc. I don't know if Minwax is similar, but I'd imagine so.

Hello,

I Lord Ghee am just now getting back into painting figures. I thank you all for the information here. I went looking for some dip. I decided to explore the clear base of the pant. So I went down to Lowe's and spoke with Tony the paint manger and he informed me that that would work but some of the paint bases had an ambering quialiy (they yellow over time) to make the paint age in a richer fashion. Tony pointed out a product, Valspar clear protector in their Signature Colors ™ collection. The quart can was $6.98 USD so I will give dipping a try with this product.

Now what is the best way to dip.
How do you hold the figure to the stick when you dip it.
If you spray it with an airbrush do you spray the bottom of the base after the figure dries.

also for information this is a Furture information site

link

gret infor here

going to try both methods.

Thanks
Lord Ghee

yeah, my best experience has been with futre/water 80/20
with a generous amount of windsor/newton ink-nut brown, and soe valeejo game colors skkin wash