"Hold off painting those Modern US Army figures just yet..." Topic

Seems ACU isn't performing up to the standard they hoped.

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I can see how that would be an issue.

Probably works fine with sagebrush, but doesn't blend in with many other backgrounds, and while the very small printed pattern is probably quite useful up close, assuming a similar background, it is too monochrome to break up the soldier's outline much, especially when viewed from a distance. Looks to be rather a uniform gray-green color to me, in photos.

To break up a trooper's outline, you need contrasting light and dark patterns to help with that, or at least a more bold color differentiation when viewed from a distance. Same goes for the kit the troops are carrying – not much good to have a camo. uniform if the ammo belts, backpacks, etc. don't match it.

Of course, one uniform isn't going to cut it for the varied terrain the troops are fighting in either, so they need to consider that as well, e.g. one for rocky, sandy, dirt covered terrain (will probably suffice for fighting around primitive mud and stone huts, if it is approximately the same color as the terrain); one for wooded terrain; another uniform for urban combat (gray tones), etc.

Thinking of painting 15mm or 1/72 moderns, I was thinking the same thing as Ace. When reduced, the camo blends into one solid color pretty much.

You have the issue that some genius thought it would be clever to put velcro closures on the wrists and pockets…so if you are on patrol and need to get something out of your pocket, you just gave the whole thing away!

Nah, the velcro's actually damn-near silent, except for the cussing of the wearer trying to get it apart.

Multicam is a better pattern than the ACU digital, in the sense that it works in more environments.

ACU does make it hard to see the edges of the person *in some environments*, but I've seen enough pictures from the sandbox to say it's just not the right mix of colors. For that matter, MARPAT isn't perfect, either. No camo should have black in the pattern. Black=shadows, and shadows aren't supposed to move.

I've seen the testing methodology and it was rather basic. They determined ACU to be the winner by survey. The survey had soldiers rate how easily they could spot soldiers in various pattern camo in several pictures. It didn't seem to me to be a very good methodology but it was scientific.

Personally I love British DBM and Canada's CADPAT much better than multicam and the digital desert patterns.

Velcro won't fail like a button will. If you really need it, it is hooked to your MOLLE anyway and not in a pocket.

Gee, it only took 'em two years to figure that out. No camo is perfect but of all the current "official" US patterns, MARPAT in both colors seems much better. MultiCam seems better still but I have admit that's the one pattern I haven't seen in person.

EDIT:
As far as CADPAT, I have had a chance to see it up close and in person and at least in my local environment, it still wasn't quite as good as Woodland MARPAT or the old BDU. It IS still better than ACU however, based on literal side by side comparisons.

Maybe this time the Army will use some colors that actually appear in nature!

Hey I wear Cadpat, and I think the ACU is not too shabby. I kind of like the way it adopts to either the green or the tan background. Sort of 'dunn' coloured as the original khaki or dust colouring.

Marpat is pretty close to Cadpat except a lot more reddish brown. The arid Cadpat and arid Marpat are near identical.

I like multicam too.

The Canadian Army is actually looking for some kind of compromise pattern now too. The temperate Cadpat is too green and the arid to too green-less. There's no pleasing everyone. By the time they come out with something, it will be so exact as to only work in select locations.

"Maybe this time the Army will use some colors that actually appear in nature"!

Nah, that's too obvious. How will you ever convince them to pay those high consulting and production fees with logic like that?

I must admit though, that a dirt, or sand pattern would be better in many circumstances, from the photos I have seen.

I always thought after half an hour getting blown around in sand and dust they were all pretty much the same light dusty grey-brown colour anyway…

But that's true for OD.

I do think that the ACU (UCP pattern) is better than the ABU. However, the new UCP-Delta looks like dirty ACU's, so I don't know how much the addition of "Coyote Brown" will help.

Maybe I'm just prejudiced, because I hated wearing ABU's…

I would thought the best thing about having velcro rather than buttons on your sleeve is that you can then wipe your nose easily……..

This is why my Republic of Texas troops wear flektarn……

Shoot from farther away or better yet nuke from orbit.

What you know flecktarn is a real cammo pattern by the Germans, I goggle it because I though CorroPredo was pulling everyone leg.

the Isreal city look like it work

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Lord Ghee

oh %#@&!!!! i just got this pattern down in 20mm

The issue we had with Velcro when I was in was that it gets bogged up easily with dirt and garbage and then won't stay closed. Give me buttons any day!

none of the new camos work as well as the old ones do, all the new camo dont brake up the human outline at all.

<Story mode>
paintball player asks me "where is tom?" I say "hes on the other side of the field talking to the army guy in the digi cam,"
paintball player "I see the army guy but not tom," I look back and I dont see tom ether so we both walk back and did not see tom till we were over half way across the field about 30 yards away, tom was in old woodland and a face vale. paintball player "wow that new Camo sucks!"
</story mode>
and no it was not desert camo.

It's not designed to break up the outline; it's designed to be low-contrast. And it's meant to be generally effective in any terrain – not optimized for one. Obviously adding brown to it will make it better in a brown-colored environment, adding green would make it better for verdant ones, and just as obviously, using a custom camo suited for the exact environment will be even better still – until you get shipped off somewhere else (or walk 1/2 a mile into different terrain) and stick out like a sore thumb.

If the test consisted of looking at photos of soldiers in brown-heavy terrains (including a "tan" colored city), and without their equipment (which does break up their outline – either for good or ill), and compares them to brown-heavy alternatives then the results are meaningless.

Here's the test. Multicam comes out as the best overall choice because each test used brown-heavy terrain.

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Ah..gotta love the army….

Okay…we're going to be fighting in an area that is mostly browns, and tans…

So our uniforms will be sage green and greys…

Okay..it's camouflage…but it's not meant to camouflage…it's meant to "break up the contrast", and not "camouflage the soldier like um…camouflage is supposed to do…ie…make it harder for them to be seen by the bad guys…

Meanwhile somewhere back in an Office in CONUS…4 administrative types are arguing over "the new uniform" as to whether it will keep creases and "look good heavily starched"…

Ohhh…and don't forget the "French Wrap" on the trouser legs…

But then again this is the same army that sent me to Desert Shield and Storm, with a standard NATO MERDC colored vehicle and BDUS…didn't get chocolate chips until two months AFTER I got there…and then 2 pairs…

Thanks Uncle Sam!!!!

This is about the only thing ACU is good at blending in with!

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I played on an airsoft team for a short while that used ACU. Besides being hideous, it made us standout on the battlefield unless we happened to be next to a big grey rock. Woodland, desert or multicam works better.

This isn't about effectiveness – it's just political now.

When the only job that troops have is to drive around waiting for an ambush or IED, it doesn't make any difference what they are wearing. In fact, there's a lot to be said for making them as noticeable – and menacing looking – as possible. But that, of course, would only work if anyone – anyone at all – thought we would actually stick around and finish it.

This is about the only thing ACU is good at blending in with!

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That's it! I'm buying those for the next time the in-laws visit! I'll be able to watch football without anyone finding me.

:-)