"Good Medieval Rules?" Topic

Can anyone recommend a set of good Medieval rules that can cover a lot of different eras and regions, be it classic knights vs. knights to vikings to the crusades to Agincourt to Robin Hood to etc.?

Thanks!

Take and have a great day….

ciao,
john.

Depends on the scale you want to game.

Personally I have never found a set of Medieval Rules I liked.

Pig Wars for skirmish/small unit actions.

There are tons of 'Pre-gunpowder rules' Everything from DBA to Field of Glory -- I dunno but maybe impetus will do for you as well. Basic Impetus is free.

mjc

The obvious one is WAB.

"The obvious one is WAB."

Why is that obvious? After all the title is Warhammer ANCIENT Battles, not Warhammer Medieval Battles.

I expect Doug Larsen will be along here soon …

Then there is the rules called Medieval Warfare (currently available from Foundry).

The fact that you say Robin Hood probably means you're looking at skirmish rules, where one figure represents one man, yes ?

I'd considered using the GW Lord of the Rings rules for Robin Hood type games. The Might and Fate point idea would let you reflect the heroic qualities of some of the characters.

Haven't actually played Pig wars [although I have the rules tucked away somewhere] but they always get lots of praise for small scal/skirmish type games.

WAB works well for bigger games [even if it does say 'Ancient' in the title ].

Of course with this being TMP everyone will have a different opinion on the 'best rule set!

I'm also looking for good medieaval skirmish rules.
Could anyone give me a rundown of the Pig Wars rules – what is it that makes them good (and what isn't good)?

Mike S.
Actually there is a WAB Medieval supplement and a specific book, that goes into more detail, for the medieval period in eastern Europe.

I've yet to find one – someone I know was going to go away and write a set as he couldn't find one he liked either. Still waiting for these!

While it wouldn't cover the gamut of what you're looking for, there's a set of rules for late medieval called "Poleaxed"by the Lance and Longbow society that I've always wondered about.

I can try and find the set we use which were made in the 70's and are OOP if you like and copy/scan them. They should do what you need, are simple enough to get a big game in (figure wise), in a decent time scale, and capture the era very well.

Depends what you mean by "Good" John.

WAB is a popular all rounder which gives some character to each of the medieval periods – but you need the separate books to get the most from it.

As an all rounder I prefer Basic Impetus which is FREE. Impetus appears to be superior but Basic Impetus does the job very well and is FREE! Did I say, FREE. Plus well supported with army lists and an active forum.

If we are talking specific – then Shattered Lances for Crusades & Feudal period and Poleaxed for later. Poleaxed can be used throughout but it's really best in the latter C14th and C15th IMHO.

Cheers
Mark

The fact that you say Robin Hood probably means you're looking at skirmish rules, where one figure represents one man, yes ?

Hmmm, I had not stopped to consider en masse versus skirmish. I supposed that primarily at the moment skirmish would suit me best, though now that you have brought this up recommendations for both skirmish rules and a larger scale set of rules would be greatly appreciated.

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Dropship Horizon, by "good" I mean what people determine as being good. I know that everyone's opinion is different and highly subjective, but if every single person responding said that The General's Garderobe rules were a crock of dung, then that is usually a good sign that they are not all that great and I would avoid The General's Garderobe. But, by different people expressing different opinions on what they view as good it gives me a base from which to start doing research.

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alien BLOODY HELL surfer, what is the name of the rules that you are talking about?

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Thank you, everyone for your advice!

Take care and have a great day….

ciao,
john.

Mock26,

You might like Casus Belli as they cover up to 1495 A.D.:

thewarevent.com

Hi

Mike, Doug and I disliked the rules we were playing. Between us, we were playing with 10 or so different groups with different rules. Being old school, the prejudice is that if you don't like anything, write your own.

We did. Personally, I don't claim they are the rules for anyone. They fit our prejudices and not yours. Thus, I don't like really recommending rules. The questioner has no idea what you or I consider "good". Our rules were originally "private" and only went into print by demand.

One size does not fit all.

Art of War: 1066.us

Rocky

You will all note I did not plug the rules I'm working on. Not sure I like these either.

I did buy Rocky's rules. These are worth a look if you haven't seen them.

mjc

A question about Warhammer Ancient Battles, is it another one of GW's money pits? With the current Warhammer 40k rules you have to not only buy the basic rules book but you also have to buy individual "team" books in order to use various forces. So, if you want to do a battle of Marines vs. Orks you need to buy three books in order to play the game! Is WAB the same? Or can you actually use the base rules book to fight battles with it? If I wanted to do a viking battle would I have to buy the WAB book AND the Shieldwall book? And if I wanted to run an Arthurian battle I would have to buy yet a third book?

For Dark Age / early Medieval I'd recommend Glutter of Ravens which gives an interesting feel to the warband clashes of Britain. You spend time and command points psyching up your troops with heroic speeches and alcohol and then let them loose. You also need to decide between a horde or a smaller, more controllable force that can strike first.

For larger scale clashes, I like Medieval Warfare (Terry Gore) which has interesting command and control. (However, remember peasants suck and might, just might, stand up to real troops for one round).

If you don't mind the arithmetic, Revenge gives a good Medieval feel (I still remember my first battle in which the knights just took off down the centre to their doom).

Although I like Warhammer Fantasy, I don't like WAB due to its lack of C3, which, for a medieval battle, is kinda essential IMHO.

For skirmish games? Erin gives a good fast game as does Warhammer skirmish / Mordheim. I'd also suggest considering Rackham's Confrontation (3rd edition / Dogs of War).

WAB is not exactly a GW money pit.

Indeed I think GW forgot all about it.

There have been threats to publish WAB II but AFAIK these are only threats. Don't hold your breach.

mjc

Rocky, that was your longest caveat ever! :)

Our rules are GOOD. They are fun and fast-playing and simulate historical army types very well. However, the mechanism for handling figures is a bit fiddly for some people: if you like reaching into the game to remove whole figures, or advance and withdraw and face them in melee combat, then you'll probably like our approach okay: it feels like a skirmish game that way, while being an army-level game.

1066.us

er Day of Battle?

alien BLOODY HELL surfer,
What is the name of the rules that you are talking about?

If you are scanning them then I would be very interested in taking a look, if you would be so very kind.

WAB does have "Army books", but unlike other GW systems, the books cover many forces in a given time period. For example if you want to play Medieval battles, you buy "Armies of Chivalry".

Having said that, check the WHH website to figure out which armies are covered in which books, and realize that the coverage can seem kind of arbitrary, to say the least.

(For example, no dedicated Crusades or Greco-Persian Wars books exist, but there is a "Spartacus" book. Go figure.)

If you're interested in skirmishing games of a dozen or two figures per side, you might want to check out the free "Chain Reaction: Swordplay" game. It's a whole lot of fun and surprisingly realistic in its results. Rarely do you "fight to the death" – your lesser warriors are not going to stick around when things go pear-shaped. This is a useful feature for campaign gaming, and Swordplay is well suited to that sort of thing. It's also my favorite melee skirmish game, so I'm a little biased.

If CR:Swordplay isn't your cup of tea, GW's Lord of the Rings game is a very nice skirmish game too, and you can find the "Age of the Trebuchet" supplement out on the web that gives you stats for Medieval figures.

One last idea – Check out EBob's Rebellion game. Early versions seemed sort of like a response to GW's LoTR game but it has grown into something more. It's tightly focused on the first Scottish war of Independence (Think "Braveheart"), but I still think it's worth looking at for anyone interested in Medieval gaming.

Hi

Doug, I like our rules as well, and like how I can sim known battles and how easy they are picked up by new players.

On the other hand, I have gamed with people who love to contemplate the game like chess, want historical officers with "you lose" attittudes and gamers who want a tidy "just roll the dice once and put the figs away".

So, I am not willing to say "our way is the only way". Thus an even longer caveat!

Rocky

Mock26 wrote, "is it another one of GW's money pits? With the current Warhammer 40k rules you have to not only buy the basic rules book but you also have to buy individual "team" books in order to use various forces."

All you need to be able to play is the basic WAB book. It even has Romans and Barbarians in it if that's all you want to play. Other than that, all you need is the one book for the period you want to play (so, two books total).

The supplements have all the armies for a particular period and region in one book. For example, the Shieldwall supplement has Saxon, Norman, Scottish, etc armies for that period and the British Isles. No need to buy any other supplement if that's what you're interested in.

Having said that, because I'm also interested in other periods and regions, I have other books. I even have a couple of books just because I like the information, format, and the layman's historical information.

Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions. I picked up a copy of Pig Wars ($10 is a great price!) and Basic Impetus (Free is an even better price!).

Now, has anyone ever played using the Avanti rules? I played them for an ancients game at GenCon and the GM said that the rules are intended for ancients up to just before the invention of gunpowder. I enjoyed the event, but really do not have much of an opinion of the rules. After all, it was only a 4-hour event. So, any thoughts on Avanti? Thanks!

Take care and have a great day….

ciao,
john.

I have a few which can be used for medieval and plan to buy one more:

WAB: Good character to units. For me a really fun game. Some strange gaps in the official lists for some armies which I don't think does it any favours (they are coming soon I'm sure but have been coming for 8 years or more!!!). I prefer to leave out the characters which make it a little akin to Fantasy. One of my favourite sets. Popular so easy to get a game.

FoG: Good for element based armies and for me has a nice depth and granularity. Popular too, like WAB. Many armies covered. Some complain games take a long time. At times combat resolution can drag.

DBM/DBMM: Element based again. Not my taste but certainly an option. Too abstract for me.

Medieval Warfare (Gore): Like this set. Not too many people play though, always a problem.

Medieval Warfare (Bryant): Very good game this I think. Many armies covered. All in the rules. Not so many players though. Would play this more given a chance and could find more players. For me it has a good feel. Elements.

Shattered Lances: Crusades specific. Like these. Again, too few players. Would play more given chance. Element based again.

Warmaster: Not the fantasy version. Dedicated Ancients version and Medieval supplement. Not really for me this but it is popular and I will play it if people ask. Bit too much focus on (a certain way of modelling) command and control and for me the armies seem a little bland in the ancients version.

Impetus: Planning to buy. Waiting for second supplement as it covers armies I am interested in. Looks to be a well received set and seems to be gaining popularity.

For me it all comes down to enjoying the game and being able to get one!!! So depending on my mood I opt for WAB or FoG when i have the time. I will doubtless add Impetus to that list too. I will play Warmaster if asked and would like to be able to play more Medieval Warfare and Shattered Lances.

"1066.us"

Usually you put up a review of the game written by someone else. When you review your own game it's called a sales pitch.

"Sales pitch", you say that like it's a bad thing….

PS: My reference to Bob Bryant's rules was of course meant to be Might of Arms. Brain block on day of typing I think :-(

I have always liked Chipco's Days of Knights. Very flexibe set that gives good period feel.

Thanks,

John

i live in the usa. what online shop can i buy the dead tree version of pig wars from?

Sorry for the delay, not looked back on here until now. I've still to find the blooming rules again, so I cannot name them yet (but once I find them then I'll contact those who want to try them). It's annoying as both my father and I are itching to play the game again (I grew up with these rules and the introduced me into wargaming). I can recollect they had a required score to kill/wound depending on the troop quality and opponent quality (poss 2d6 but memory is hazy), plus if mounted etc, yet it was quick to play, and they had cmapaign rules in the back. All in all it was about 20 pages of A4, if that, with a yellow cover and a black line illustration of a knight on horseback on the cover iirc. We used to have about a hundred or so figures a side if not more, and would play it in say 2 hours I'd guess. Had rules for cannon too.
I'll keep you posted.

As long as sales pitches are being made ….

You might wish to try Casus Belli:

link