"Royalist Red/Rose Ribbons?" Topic

On another thread:
TMP link

bluewillow made the statement that "Red Ribbon refers to the hat band commonly worn by the Royalists"

I questioned the origin of this statement and apparently it comes from Haythornthwaite's The English Civil War, 1642- 1651 an illustrated military history, in which it states:

"Early in the war the Venetian ambassador reported to the Doge that the Royalists were identified by 'rose-coloured bands on their hats'…." (p144)

Haythornthwaite gives his reference as:
Carmen, W. Y., "British Military Uniforms from Contemporary Pictures" (London, 1957) p. 24.

Usual problem then. One historian quoting another until "everybody says it so it must be true".

Anyone know of a primary source reference for this? The Venetian ambassador's letter perhaps? And was it referring to the Royalists on a particular occasion or generally throughout the war?
Indeed, is the wearing of "rose-coloured bands on their hats" (hmm "rose", not "red") attested for troops on the field of battle or just "men in London who support the King" ( see link )

Can anyone shed any further light?

(hmm "rose", not "red")

rosa/rosso innit?, probably lost in translation.

It's unlikely that the Venetian ambassador travelled much outside London, so his account may only be reliable in the capital anyway. Further, it appears to refer to a specific time – 'early in the war' – as well as place.

He probably saw some troops with red ribbons worn as fieldsigns. Hardly a trend one would think.

<shrug>

If he didn't travel far from London he wouldn't have seen many Royalists.

"If he didn't travel far from London he wouldn't have seen many Royalists."

According to link (quoted above) it was "in the early stages of the war" that "men in London who support the King wear rose-coloured bands on their hats;"

(This is presumably a quote from the said Venetian ambassador's letter, but I cannot be certain.)

Venetian ambassadors were really spies with a good reputation for truth.

I am sure red goes back well before Carmen as I feel I have read it before in an older book. But now stuck.

"I am sure red goes back well before Carmen as I feel I have read it before in an older book"

Yes, but I always thought it was a red sash rather than a hat band.

The colours (not flag-type colours) were often ribbons that could be attached to a piece of clothing to show allegiance. Therefore hat bands would follow.