"Aventine Sassanid King's War elephant" Topic

We have just released the first of a set of three Sassanid War Elephants. This one is the mount of the King. The beast has its front feet raised slightly off the ground and comes with all the accessories.

link

Cheers

Keith

Is that a 28mm elephant for $20? How do you offer so much metal for such a good price?

Do you think it's too cheap…we think it is priced okay. The postage will be a bit of a sting as it is a heavy beast.

Cheers

keith

I think it's priced great for a buyer like me. Great job!

Very nice!! Great price. I see you are going to produce more Sassanid elephants (which way cool), what about Sassanid Cavalry and Infantry?

I like the photo from behind best; the detail is very nice, especially the ring around the ankle (presumably so that the elephant can be secured at night?), and the way the rear rider is sitting.

Simon

WOW!

I'm on with a Sassanid army now… And another pachyderm is so hard to resist…

Even though I've already got one too many for the size of army I'm building!

Humph! I have all the resistance of a week-old lettuce – I have ordered one.

Keith & Adam, great looking! I cannot wait to see Phyuss neelies! Cheers Mike Adams

Great piece of work!!!!
I hope a full range of Sassanids (cav. and inf.) belongs to the possibility!
Philipus

Philipus

The elephants are part of a range that will cover most of the classical versions and could total 16 different modells. We will get around to doing the cavalry etc for a full sassanid range but it will be some time away.

We are comitted to Republican Romans next.

Cheers

keith
Aventine

That is one beautiful vignette and has me thinking of doing Sassanids in 28mm for the first time in 30 years.

Well done!

Pat

Beautiful!

Looking forward to the rest of the elephants you have in mind!

I will be up for a Carthaginian army with elephants like that. Love the pose. Just need a man squeezed by the trunk.

Is that $20 USD usd or pounds? Mike Adams

It's 20 US dollars (12.50 pounds sterling)- great price as others have said!

I must have one of these!

"I will be up for a Carthaginian army with elephants like that."

And I hope Aventine knows better.

Allen

Allen

We have read the articles about this subject and will be doing our best to produce something suitable. If we make it small some will say its too small and if we make it bigger than it should we will get it for that. The solution is something in-between, smaller than Asian with African characteristics.

I hope you will approve.

Keith

Those are some beautiful miniatures. You guys are doing a great job, keep it up.

One questions, can the Allied Hastati, Principes and Triarii be used for Samnites?

Regards, Bill

Bill

The answer is "at a stretch" The samnites had tranverse feathers as a rule I believe, but there would have been a lot a different styles even in each tribe. The Samnite armour would have had round pectorals and square pectorals but they also had the triple disc pectorals which we do not do yet. We have plans to cover them at a much later stage, so if you need Samnites at present I would look to Mark Simms stuff either on his site Cruscader or the stuff he did for A&A(although there is an issue with the feathers coming of these).

Cheers

Keith

"The solution is something in-between, smaller than Asian with African characteristics."

For those who believe that the "North African" elephant (Loxodonta africana pharaoensis) was taxonomically distinct, it should be a doddle to come up with some bones in order to estimate the size (and hopefully, some DNA samples)! But the estimates based on frescoes and coins suggest that these beasts were only eight and a half feet at the shoulder.

As African forest elephants (Loxodonta cyclotis) are only slightly shorter than that (eight feet), they would make an acceptable stand-in. That's assuming they aren't actually the same sub-species. In contrast, Indian elephants (Elephas Maximus) range from eight feet on up, with large specimens up to twelve feet.

But the African bush elephant (Loxodonta africana) ranges from ten to thirteen feet, so a Carthaginian beastie needs to be much smaller than that, indeed. Also there are physical differences between a bush elephant and a forest elephant, and in the absence of "North African" specimens, it's probably a lot safer to go with those of the forest elephant.

"I hope you will approve."

So do I! I wouldn't be too with what people think (except me, of course!), if you can educate them. A Carthaginian or Ptolemaic elephant *was* small, and to use something half again as tall as a model (like a bush elephant) just wouldn't be right. It sounds like you're on the right track.

When it comes to Samnites, keep in mind that there aren't a lot of contemporary images of Samnites per se. The "wargamer's stereotype" of what Samnites looked like is drawn primarily from surviving Lucanian (another Oscan-speaking people) images.

Fore-and-aft crests aren't unknown in southern Italy, but the big difference is in the helmet style. Aventine's Allied legionaries are equipped with a wonderful variety of helmets: Montefortino, Etrusco-Corinthian, and others, most reflecting northern Italian influence. The composite cuirasses of the heavier Aventine allies also feel more Etruscan in origin, to me; but those are a fine alternative to the mail lorica, and show Greek influence, so could be used elsewhere.

Southern Italian helmets would more likely be based on Attic and other Greek models, and those are what wargame figure sculptors usually choose. Heavy armor is not usually seen on "Samnite" wargame figures; Campanian hoplites are usually just "Samnites" or "Oscans" with a different shield. Some Aventine composite cuirasses might look good on southern hoplites from the former Greek cities.

And there are some perfectly good crossovers. The Aventine hastati wearing this variant of the Thracian helmet:

link

…would look right at home in southern Italy. So I wouldn't draw overly strict lines when it comes to using these figures.

I haven't been able to order any yet, but last week, a kind TMPer sent me a group of various officers figures, and I was pleased to see how well the Aventine leaders go alongside those from A&A and Crusader, size-wise.

Allen

As always a full answer cheers Allen.

Keith

Thanks, this is the best part of a new period. The knowledge learned.

Regards, Bill

Re Allen's comments above, I've just posted a mixed group of Aventines (mostly with Etrusco Corinthian and Thracian helmets) and Crusader Oscans to my mate in France for painting. They are intended to be Bruttian veterans. I'll give them mostly scuta and a few hoplons.

The Crusaders are a couple of mm shorter, but I think will go well enough.

Simon

Adam finihed painting the elephant over the weekend. I decided to post this to let those who (thank you) purchased the beast what we intended with the LBMS banner transfers. Adam will finishe the crew asap and I will post the finished item.

picture
picture

Hope you like it as much as I do.

Cheers

Keith

Oh my god. Now I really have to have one.

wow

Gorgeous saddle blanket. Just wow!

Package received, it is a lovely model. Too bad I have so many other projects to work on this just yet. It is not too big for 28mm and the casting and pose and details are fantastic. Definitely the best 28mm war elephant I've seen. My other favorite is the Zvesda- which is (predictably) too big for 20mm but fits with my 25mm figures well. Someday I'll complete that project.
JJ