"Franco/Prussian rules" Topic

I am interested in this period and intend to start a 15mm collection using Old Glory which look like great minis. However Im stuck as far as rules go, I want to game the large battles without having to spend a fortune on figures. Can anyone suggest a set of rules that are element based and deal with the corps size battles that are the charecter of the period.

We used modified Fire and Fury. Units were Regiments (12 stand Prussian, 9 stand French). Volley and Bayonet is another option (each stand is a Regiment or Brigade)

Polemos FPW will fit your needs. In brief, they offer two scales of operation. Firstly where one base = a battalion and you can comfortably command a corps. Secondly where one base = a brigade and you command a multi-corps army.

These rules are designed specifically for the FPW rather than being part of a generic 19thC set.

Loads more background and details if you go to baccus6mm.com and follow the POLEMOS link.

Cheers

Peter

We also modified Fire and Fury mostly based on the work done by the guys in Wrye

link

I have thought about the Polemos rules as I have the Napoleonic set, I have also looked at F/F variants and that looks interesting too, may try em both.

Another vote for V&B….

We've done a bunch and had great fun!

Joe Collins

"They Died For Glory" is purpose written for the F-PW, not a modification of an unrelated system, and specifically provides OB's and rules for the "Big Battles."

I believe you can get the rules from co-author, Bob Burke.

If you wish, contact me off list and I'll give you his E-mail and you can write him for details.

I have a copy, and the rules are not only very interesting, but a delight to read, with with high production values courtesy of the second author, Dave Waxtell.

Give TDFG serious consideration--I think you'll be persuaded.

TVAG

How does Volly and Bayonet work? That is, what are the mechanics basicaly?
I have TDFG and although great for OOB the amount of figures needed is huge. I am limited in table space and amount of figures i can realisticaly get painted.

You could try the '1870' rules by Bruce Weigle.

As well as rules there's a mass of scenarios, OOB's and period detail in there. Well worth the money.

V&B quick rundown…

Scale: Inch = 100 meters…
Turn: 1 hour
Units: Regiments for FPW..(Brigades for ACW & Naps..Regiments for SYW).

Mounting: 3x3 inch base (or 80cm if you wish) for infantry. Arty is 1.5x3.

Game Play:
Standard I go- U go

Units have two factors.. a morale rating 3-6 generally… and a point rating 3-7 generally (Number of men in units of 500). Guns are 1 pt per 6 guns.

Morale is covered per unit and per Division. Hit are recorded on a OB sheet.

The rules are extremely simple. The game was designed for convention/group play. Command is a mostly function of the player's personality. For one on one games you may want to import the command system from Shako. For larger games… you don't need it… trust me!

This is the only Horse & Musket set I have run in the last 10 years or so…. covering SYW, Naps, ACW, APW and FPW.

I've done Spicheren, Werth, Loigny, and one other I can't recall in FPW….. all multiple times.

Last Spicheren game was won by a German Cav charge!…. as odd as it gets… never happen again in a million years!

Been a long time since I have gotten my FPW stuff out. This thread has me thinking…..

Joe Collins

You will find the V&B authors design notes and my own general review of the mechanics here:
link

"To the Last Gaiter Button". TMP link

If anyone would like to purchase a copy of THEY DIED FOR GLORY, he can contact me directly at Burker1 (at) aol.com.

For multiple Corps sized battles VnB is the way to go. For one to two Corps or less I'd suggest Field of battle by Piquet. Great set of rules! Pretty much the only horse and musket set I prefer to use from SYW to 1914.

Thanks,

John

Not trying to hijack, but can TDFG be used for the Franc0=Austrian or Austro-Prussian Wars?

To the Last Gaiter Button also gets my vote for a simple system, great for big battles, gets you thinking about real issues of generalship rather than the positioning of single battalions. Also has a good campaign system and mechanism for fighting parts of large actions off table. Really designed for corps on corps battles. Last month a friend and I laid on a large game, for twelve people, based on the Battle of Sedan. Used 10mm figures (this is what TTLGB is designed for, but there would not be a problem for 15mm) and fielded over 400 battalions, 300 squadrons and 200 batteries. It looked awesome!

Mollinary

You need quite a lot of kit to play decent sized battles with both Fire & Fury and 1870, let alone Principles of War or Warring Empires.

If you want to do Corps+ sized battles (the majority of FPW engagements were rather larger than just one Corps) without a huge investment in kit you want to be looking at one base = one regiment/brigade type rules rather than one base = one battalion (1870) or one base = one company (F&F).

Volley & Bayonet or Polemos are a good start.

I wrote my own (also one base = one regiment, manouvre units are divisions), heavily based on Richard Brooks ACW rules.

The playsheet is here (I would hesitate to call them 'rules'):

PDF link

we used them to fight Koeniggratz last night in two and a half hours, although I bumped the scale up to one base = one brigade. The Austrians lost;-)

Thanks for the advice. I think I may try Volly and bayonet and TTLGB.

I second the 1870 booklet which is a goldmine of information on French and Prussian army OBs, very detailed scenarios, excellent short analytic pieces comparing various aspects of the armies and their equiptment, and a good set of rules based on 6mm, but can be used for 15mm as well.

Does 'Last Gaiter Button' count figures or does it work by stands? If the latter, now many stands per battalion (or whatever the base unit is)?

I'm curious, having some 200 Old Glory 15mm French painted up while my buddy is still working on his Prussians.

TTLGB counts stands as a quick and easily identifiable method of working out combat power. Prussian line and other German battalions are basically four stands, French are three. This represents basic strength. In addition officers are attached to help indicate quality. Line 1, Zouaves, marines, or guards (at your own discretion really) 2, regiments de marches or garde mobiles 0.Jaeger and chasseur battalions are assessed as higher quality than the line, and have six or five skirmish stands each, with no extra officer. Cavalry are four or five stands, usually four, batteries are a single gun model. Hope this helps.

Mollinary

Now I am curious to see To The Last Gaiter Button. Sounds very good. :)