"1806/7 Russian Uniform questions" Topic

I'm starting work on a new Russian army and there are a few questions I need answered.

First, each battalion in a given regiment is identified by pompom color. For normal musketeer regiments, is the Grenadier battalion the first, second or third? I'm guessing the first based on a few pictures in the old Osprey book but would like verification.

Second. Are the flagstaffs the color of the inspection, or do they follow the coloring of the shoulder straps?

I've checked my Ospreys, the old RAFM Nafziger book and a few other places and haven't found much. I'm sure one of you learned folk knows the answers to these questions.

Thanks in advance,

Bart

The Grenadier Battalion was the first battalion of the regiment and caried the Leibfahne.

Rob

I don't know about 'learned', but from the sources I have:

1. In normal Musketeer regiments, the first battalion was indeed the grenadier battalion, and thus sported white 'outer' pompons, the pompon centres being coloured per the regiment's seniority within the Inspectorate (e.g., matches shoulder strap). In Grenadier regiments, all battalions sported white 'outer' pompons; e.g., including the 'fusilier' battalions.

2. Flagstaffs pre-1800 were unregulated, and could be black, white, dark brown, or straw yellow. From Alexander I's flag issue of 1803 staves were black, however those of flags issued earlier were probably unchanged. From March 1807 a system of identifying a regiment's seniority within a division by stave colour was introduced: 1st = white, 2nd = pale yellow, 3rd= coffee brown, 4th = black. This identifier system was altered again in late 1808, which is beyond your scope of interest.

Hope that helps. It is summarised from a variety of sources which can be provided on request.

Bryce

Thanks everyone!

I knew someone would have the information at hand.

Bart

The best place for uniform details is Mark Conrad's translations of Viskovatov:
link
A useful chart can be found here:
link

The first battalion of Grenadier and Musketeer Regiments was the grenadier battalion. The fusiliers (2d and 3d battalions of the Gr. Regts.) wore pompons as described in the June 18, 1802 order, but that order also applied to the Musketeers, so I believe they took battalion colors, i.e yellow and red.

Greystreak is essentially correct about the flag staffs. The 1797 issue was regulated, but on what basis is not clear. The list of staff colors is available in various sources, and can be puzzled out without too much trouble by looking at:
link
It's not clear if the staffs were repainted, or if, like the flags themselves, they remained as they were until replaced. Also, the divisional structure was not codified until 1810.

That color chart is very, very helpful. I've never seen all of the information in one place sorted in that manner. (light bulb goes on). Thank you.