"Achieving dark skinned African & North African skintones" Topic

Saw this today and was duly impressed.

TMP link
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I have often had my Numidian light cavalry turn out too dark and I have avoided trying to do others (especially 25/28mm) because of that. Does anyone know a good link or two on painting darker fleshtones? Yes I know I could read back through the past few years of postings on TMP and find some as well.
VR
James Mattes

See Prof. Witchheimer's "recipe" here:

link

Yes, they're BREASTS! Get over it…

"Yes I know I could read back through the past few years of postings on TMP and find some as well."

Yes, if you did, you would. And since you can search as well as I can…

Do keep in mind that Numidians were/are not Negroid. Especially the light-haired, blue-eyed ones. Go for a more Mediterranean skin tone.

All right, this is one of the best ones out there:

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But seriously: to do skin tones well, you have to develop and eye for the colors that you see in nature. For example, look at the back of your hand. No, the other one! Now, how many colors do you see? Try painting those colors, just on a piece of blank white card.

A real boon is to get an artist's guide to painting skin tones. Chris Saper's is good:

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I like James Horton's, too:

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Those can help you develop an appreciation for color and light in painting skin, whether on canvas or on miniatures.

Allen

Do keep in mind that Numidians were/are not Negroid. Especially the light-haired, blue-eyed ones. Go for a more Mediterranean skin tone.

Really? what about this?

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link

firpocarr.com/id4.html

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link

It really looks to me that it is a mixture of light brown shades to dark brown (a lot more darker) shade and definitely black descent.

Oh and by the wag the first link is a very good example of painting darker skin tones – very nice looking high lights.

Why are you arguing about Allen's statement about NUMIDIANS by posting links to NUBIANS?

<weeping>

Don't yell, please, John. I'm… too fragile right now…

There, there, Allen.
Go and have a Pocono Pale Ale.

They ran out at the local discount gorocery store, which had been getting it in. I'm going to have to settle for a Negra Modelo.

Did you ever wonder… no, that's Blue Fez territory.

Allen

Maybe I should have said Amazigh.

Why are you arguing about Allen's statement about NUMIDIANS by posting links to NUBIANS?

Dude! What is your problem?!

I am not arguing in anyway shape or form, what are you the thought police??

***Back to Allen:

Allen, I was simply curious about your statement, no harm intended – AT ALL – if it offended you what so ever I am so very sorry…

I was always taught that Nubians were a mixture of folks from the region, Maybe you know something I don't know… I have always seen Nubians even in their ancient drawings as dark skinned to light skinned people, I would think the fella could paint his minis to different shades is all I was really saying.

I have painted mine the darker but I saw a guys army and he had his painted various colors and they looked really cool (with the variations of skin tones), but in conversation found out his findings – just curious… no big deal!

'Do keep in mind that Numidians were/are not Negroid. Especially the light-haired, blue-eyed ones. Go for a more Mediterranean skin tone.'

I salute yout perseverance.

Also I did find this link "Painting African Faces":

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The Numidians and their cousins (including Libyans, not shown) lived in the areas noted here as "East Numidia", "Western Numidia", Mauretania", as well as those designated as "Berber Tribes" and "Garamantes":

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They spoke a variety of Semitic-related languages, and as I mentioned, were of stock that even today can be traced as closer to Northern European haplotypes than Sub-Saharan African. There was very little admixture with black Africans, until the Arabs conquered North Africa and subsequently began importing black slaves.

The ancient Nubians, as shown in your links, became the peoples noted on the map as "Meroe", "Blemmyes", and the related "Axumites". They were black Africans then and now, in the modern Sudan and Ethiopia.

Numidii Nubii non erunt.

Allen

Dude! What is your problem?!

Because you are wrong. They are two distinct people separated by about 1000 miles,

Numidians: Inhabitants of western North Africa.
Nubians: Inhabitants of the tropical regions south of Egypt.

Hell, you may as well post links to pictures of Greeks if someone asks about the Irish.

Oh, why not post pictures of African slaves if someone asks about the Pilgrims?

But, if you wish to continue to make a fool of yourself over this, pray continue. Don't let ME pry the foot from your mouth.

Some Nubians with their puppies out to cheer Allen up…

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This is the closest I could find. These are Sikels with their puppies. (Well, they're temporary Sikels: Brits visiting Sicily, apparently). Better fed than the Nubians.

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They're in the agora at Morgantina.

Allen

John the OFM:

And you could have just said…

"Hey warlord it was NUMIDIANS instead of NUBIANS"

but instead you come on like you are jumping down my throat, at any case I believed it was Nubians and not Numidians – my mistake (I did not register it being Numidians), thought he knew somthing I did not know..

You will have it where someone wont even want to ask a question, GOOD GRIEF!

You will have it where someone wont even want to ask a question, GOOD GRIEF!

Nope.
See
TMP link

Ever since these Numidians came out, Allen has been fighting a fruitless battle to correct all who call them Nubians, much to my amusement.

Hear that head banging from the general direction of California?

Full disclosure: Back in the 80s, when we were not in the Golden Age of miniatures, I used Hinchliffe Nubian archers as Numidian archers in my Carthaginian army. "Black as the ace of spades", to quote Monty Python.
So, my righteous indignation is from a reformed sinner.

Praise the Lord!

Thank heavens no-one has mentioned elephants.

Oh, crap.

John is being protective of my tender feelings. Please excuse his harsh tone. He's probably just recalling his own education at the hands of nuns. I believe that we can all agree to get along.

Allen

Those hands held rulers. Big thick rulers.

And you learned, didn't you?

"John the OFM:

And you could have just said…

"Hey warlord it was NUMIDIANS instead of NUBIANS""

Eh? He did do that. That's almost exactly what he did, though not quite word for word. Have you come here for the five-minute argument, or the full half-hour?

Well… thank you for the information. I have to admit I don't know much about "The Numidians", I have studied Carthaginian history a bit though. However I will now (like to do the research myself – nothing better than learning it yourself)

Please excuse his harsh tone

I never have been one to take getting slapped around (Physically or virtually), I fight back – must be the IRISH in me! :)

Sooooooo what is this about – ELEPHANTS!

Just when things started to wind down…

Eh? He did do that. That's almost exactly what he did, though not quite word for word. Have you come here for the five-minute argument, or the full half-hour?

Didn't think I was comming here for any "argument", just virtual friendly conversation. I get enough of that in the "real" world everyday!

I am not going to agree with everything you say though, but I will admit when I am wrong – you just have to hold me down sometimes and say "LOOK!" :)

Ah guys I was just asking how to paint darker skin.
VR
James Mattes

I find both the Nubians and their succesors, and the Numidians (and their cousins), quite fascinating. I just like to keep them separate, as you can see.

One of the more interesting books I've read in the last year or so is Henry Aubin's "The Rescue of Jerusalem: The Alliance Between Hebrews and Africans in 701 B.C.". It's kept me setting more and more figures aside for a Nubian Pharaonic army.

Unfortunately, there's no writer that's a champion for the Amazigh peoples. Peter Green's "Alexander to Actium" provides some interesting information about the relationships between the Greeks at Kyrene and the Libyans. But no-one to my knowledge has really gone into great depth about the western Libyans and Carthage (as opposed to the rise of Carthage itself), or about the development of the kingdomw of Numidia and Mauretania.

Some of that must wait on the further development of a Berber consciousness in an Arab-dominated area. Much archaeological work remains to be done, and not only in the Hellenized kingdoms of coast and mountain, but also deep in the desert to uncover more of the secrets of the Garamantes.

Go to far in that direction, though, and it's easy to be distracted by the story of the explorers of the Sahara, and Count Almasy (of "The English Patient"), and the origins of the Long Range Desert Group, and wondering why the heck Battlefront is no longer producing the SAS and LRDG sets…

I tell you, those old eremites and cenobites of Roman Egypt really hit onto something. Spend too long in the desert, and your mind starts making strange connections.

Allen

Didnt Nubians ride mastodons? and Numidians… er nevermind I am a like gray on this matter…

No, no, this is abuse. Argument is down the hall.

Unfortunately, there's no writer that's a champion for the Amazigh peoples

I have a tendency to mis-read words sometimes – always a surprise to me to see trucks and vans with "Shoplifters" written on them, until I work out its "Shopfitters". I was looking forward to learning about the "Amazing people" for a while there.

5 second Wiki shows that the Amazigh gave the world Zinedin Zedane, so cant be all bad(

Yes, Zidane would be a good prototype for matching skin tone.

And good for headbutting Romans*…

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If Allen is right (and I have no reason to disbelieve him) that the ancient Numidians and Zizou are of the same stock, then you really ought'nt to be painting them any different to your Romans, or other Europeans for that matter.

So is it finally time to throw out our horse-riding Rastafarians? I reckon if you painted your Numidians the colour of Zidane there would be howls of derision from many quarters around here. "They're way too pale! What were you thinking, you fool?"

*Or Iapyges, if we're being exceeding picky.

Yup. Real Amazigh:

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…are so pale they can be played by Scots:

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Although on closer inspection:

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…an Italian might have been a better fit:

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Allen

Furthermore, this commentary on Herodotus:

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…suggests that some Numidians, as well as their Libyan cousins, shared styles with the ancient Britons:

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Or perhaps Britons copied the style from their encounters with the Amazigh:

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It's all very confusing.

Allen

But did the Britons ride the Crested Elephants, too?

The ancient Britons used elephants in war, but not crested ones:

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Allen

That IS a Crested Elephant. The picture was taken in autumn, just after it shed its crest for the winter.

The worst defeat Allen has suffered in his righteous attempt to correct people's views of the Numidians as dark-skinned is the picture of a dark-skinned "Numidian chief" on the very same page in the WAB Hannibal supplement as Allen tells his audience they are not dark-skinned!

Can't win for losing on this one, Allen. :)

Somehow my Numidians ended up darker than I intended, too. :)

Away from ethnic groupings and on to how to paint:

I use the Reaper Master Series Dark Flesh triad for most of my dark skintones.

Another option is to use GW Dark Flesh and Scorched Brown (works great for really dark-skinned folks, like Kenyans).

For a lighter tone, I use the P3 Idrian Flesh with a top highlight of Khardic Flesh. (using a mix of the two in between, and maybe a sepia ink wash for the old-timers). This makes a good Amerind skintone, but I also used it for the 28mm 300-style Spartan I painted up.

I'm so innocent. I thought that was going to be a picture of cute Sudanese kids holding juvenile dogs.