"Carabiniers on Campaign" Topic

If the Perry advertisement is not too optimistic, we could see the plastic French Heavy Cavalry released in a month or so, and who knows, maybe some metals.

For those of you about to build the two Carabinier regiments, are you going to paint them in white uniforms (as so often shown in illustrations) or the blue campaign uniforms they probably wore at Waterloo (and Borodino)? Does anyone feel the blue is not correct? I expect white will be used more frequently anyway but I'm leaning towards blue, except for the officers in white.

I thought that the blue uniforms were worn before their adaptation of the cuirasse, helmet etc. I had never heard of them wearing anything but white after 1812.

My understanding is the same as Fritz.

Cheers,

The Bandit

"…the blue campaign uniforms"
Wow, I've never heard of this before.
Tell more.
Cheers
trailape.blogspot.com

Light Blue coats were introduced in the 1812 campaign and seems to have been in use when the regiments were on campaign.

mont-saint-jean.com

Has them in light blue for Waterloo and I would paint them as such.

The Mont St Jean site certainly depicts them in a deep sky blue:

link

Knotel has a Carabinier in 1814 from the Magdebourg Garrison dressed in blue.

Adam's Borodino painting has blue clad Carabiniers.

I was also surprised when these references were brought to my attention. I thought they always wore white after the adoption of the helmet. Before I start painting any 1815 Perry Carabiniers, I was hoping for the judgment of this learned board on the issue. This is important!

There are plenty of primary sources showing the carabiners in light blue coats during campaign use from 1812 onwards, like Albrecht Adam (Borodino 1812), Faber du Faur, Elberfelder, Schulten, an anonymous painting when the French retreated behind the Loire in 1815, Breitenbach mentions a light blue one for usual duties and a white one for parade, Camp de Dresden mentions a white one, officers are depicted for Borodino on white,

Peter Schuchardt published two plates about Carabiners à Cheval in their new uniform and is discussing this subject, as wel as did Rousselot on a plate suplementaire in Carnet de la Sabretache, as well as Patrice Courcelle in les carnets de la Campagne nr.5.

Due to the anonymous painting of 1815 it is strongly believed that the carabiners did wear their undress uniform at the battle of Waterloo in 1815.

As for 1812 to 1814 – though both coats existed – also the campaign dress pictures show the "light" blue – so also there is a trend in recent research to suggest that this was worn in the field to preserve the white coat for parades only.

Maybe in SHAT there are still some references, as with the recent book about the Guards – which demolished a lot of hitherto established facts – by looking into the dress books – like Grenadiers à Cheval did still carry their old Imperial coats (and not the new 1st cuirassier one) – or that plenty of bearskin caps were available to equip all 4 Guard grenadier regiments and that the cul de singe was often of black leather)

Worth checking out Ronald Pawly work.
link
(Scroll up)
Regards,

Apart from which, I have some notes somewhere suggesting not all the 1st and 2nd Carabiniers had breast and back plates in 1815. Thus placing them in a similar situation to the 11th Cuirassiers.

- Allan

EXCELLENT!
A sky blue Regt of Carabiniers on their way to my painting table!
Cheers

Try these two threads for the uniforms and the numbers of cuirasses available for Waterloo:-

TMP link

TMP link

@ Trailape,
I wouldn`t go for a skyblue ,maybe medium /light blue.Check the plates in Pawlys book.
Regards,

Colbert
Thanks for the tip,..
Cheers

Again a matter of choice, alas I don't have a phot of an original coat, here two contemporary prints, the last one is about July 1815

I am usually an advocate of the more darker hue – in case the illustrations in the Pawly book are not contemporary – it is the interpretation of the modern artist what light or sky blue is looking like – which very often was different to the idea of the contemporaries.

picture

and 1815

picture

I have just checked the 2 Hourtoulle books covering the period which both show white coats, one of these being a Carabinier general. I would expect them to be correct. Adkins refers to the dreadful state of the white uniforms on the morning of Waterloo but does not provide a source.

I'm still confused!

Mick ,
What Hourtoulle book covers The Belgian campaigne of 1815 ?
Regards,

Comments have suggested blue was worn from 1812. I'm referring to the 1812 and 1814 books. I don't think they do an 1815 one yet.

Houtoulle prints are not always correct – one has to cross check all references.

Also nobody denis that the white uniform existed as well – as when you look in the Elberfelder manucscript you find a carabinier in cuirass in the light blue dress and one without cuirass in the white one.

The question is – at least for some people – what did they wear when fighting.
Some gamers chose parade dresses for their armies and for them the white coat would be the solution – other would like to show campaign dress.

Here the light blue coat is an option – and contemporary prints show that they were worn in the field.

Thanks all for the great discussion.

von Winterfeld – I would not use the acronym SHAT in your above post.

It maybe another one of those US/UK language differences, but 'shat' is a word used in Britain as a past tense variation of another, similar word.

As in: the cat has shat on the carpet!

The obvious solution is to paint up two sets of regiments. Then you will have them right no matter what…;-)

von Winterfeldt, could you kindly tell me how to contact Peter Schuchardt? His website COMPAGNIE d´ELITE does not not appear to be working. I'd like to obtain some of his plates, particularly his Carabinier plates. Thanks.

Cedric

You missed the opportunity for a Dr. Seuss moment.

The cat has shat in my hat.

KAM

Service Historique de l'Armée de Terre (SHAT) from 17 janvier 2005 called Service Historique de la Défense (SHD):

link

Ministere de la defense, Etat-major de l'armee de Terre, Service historique: Guide des archives et de la bibliotheque (2nd edition – 2001). Download:

PDF link

As to get in touch with Peter Schuchardt – I alas don't know.

Appropriate initials, some would say!

It just goes to show that you can learn something new every day. Interesting thread.

When Louis-Napoleon (Napoleon III, the one who seems to have invented cognac) revived the Carabiniers after the establishment of the 2nd Empire, he uniformed them in light blue, but with the same (same looking, not the actual "same", at least, I wouldn't have thought so) brass and copper cuirasses.

I was amazed to see that in the trailers for the new PC game "Napoleon Total War" the French Carabiniers are shown in their dark-sky blue blue campaign uniforms.

Here's the link:

link

Flight Sergeant

Yes, but they are fighting British Light Dragoons in RED
(or is it the Staff Corps???)
Computer games seldom seem to get the Napoleonic uniforms right !!