"WAB Syrian Campaign" Topic

Paul Rigby has started up a 28mm Seleucid army. This allowed us to have a game of WAB Successors using the newer lists, and shows off the new, and dusts off old figures.

It's nice to have a local player with interest in the period… this will motivate me to fill out my Successors which are a bit generic and make them more specific with the newer more detailed figures available today. But it's difficult to strip out those old 25mm classic figures, Hinchliffes, Naismiths, RAFM's, and even some very ancient Minifigs were pressed into action, makes me proud.

Here's the first bit of propaganda:
link

Here's Paul's more reasonable report:
paulwargamespot.blogspot.com

I hope this will inspire some others to start up their own in-period local campaigns… as more heavy troops get finished no doubt our Syrian campaign will heat up!
JJ

Looks fun! Nice to see some Polemarch figures painted up, nicely.

Nice. Good battle report too.

Nice stuff! Who's the actress in the Arsinoe picture?

picture

Keira Knightley

Certainly inspired me to get the lead out!
Must find a quicker way to paint those new phalangites. Shame my old Minfigs have levelled pikes – look great but hard to use on the table!

Loved the camel train and Hinchliffe Camel Caravan guard. Have some of those somewhere, must drag them out.

Look forward to the rest of the Polemarchs (as well as other Successors from Empire, Aventine and Gorgon).

Almost missed the comment about the WAB 2.0 lists – so rumours of the Successor Supplement are true…….???

Cheers

Garry

Oh yes, now it starts!

The Successor supplement for WAB continues in development. For this playtest we reverted to WAB 1.5 rules… because it was simpler. This caught Paul off-guard as many of his units were based in three deep as opposed to four deep for 'normal' WAB. This gave me the edge, I think, but that's good because it makes for a better story (i.e. me winning round one :)

Even had we been playing WAB2, my Cretans would have held, since they outnumbered the cavalry… so fear would not have been a huge factor, but it might have been dicier if they needed to roll 6's to hit. Still they rolled a "Three" to hold, and that's what they did.

All I have been told is that WAB2 is in production. We are going to carry on with our little campaign, next round will be a Ptolemaic advance in retribution. I'm working on a map to share as well.
JJ

Good stuff, JJ ! Both the propaganda section and the battle report. Most inspiring.

Steve

I added the poorly handled Galatians to the page….
picture

JJ

I can't stay on task, I keep coming back and reading more snippets about this battle and "WAB 2.0", new Successor supplement and additional lists. I've got myself so wound up I'm as goofy as a wooden watch right now, maybe if I buy the"1st. Corp" Successor mounted personality pack and paint them up, hopefully that will hold me for awhile and I can get back on task!

The 1st Corps figures are generally very good. I think their cavalry are excellent, the personalities are nice.
The phalanxes are well done. I quibble about some details, but in combination with Polemarch and Crusader they are making things easy to get rid of the old and build anew (and I reckon if I keep the old 25's they are still good for those fantasies of having a big badass game someday!)
JJ

I added some photos, including the Polemarch thorakites figure.
JJ

More eye candy, I might be seeing things that are in the new successor "Ptolemaic" lists, but maybe not! I need to stay focused!

Part two, expanded from the first…
link

JJ; that definitely is one beautiful paint job on that Elephant! Also notice you're using Ptolemy personal symbol as the army standard, outstanding!

Yikes! Seleucid reinforcements are pouring in!

paulwargamespot.blogspot.com

JJ

Reading Sabin on Lost Battles I see that he allows the Arabs (and other 'Asiatics') in the Seleucid array to be levy heavy infantry – which would seem appropriate given their place in various battle lines.

Would make a change from the usual Arab bows – presumably could be a combination of swordsmen as well as spear/javelin men?

I have used a combination of Essex and Hinchliffe Arab bowmen – they mix in quite well.

I see Ptolomey has levied some older Naismith cleruch cavalry – amazing how much larger the current generation has become.

"I see Ptolemy has levied some older Naismith cleruch cavalry – amazing how much larger the current generation has become."

There is not yet a "new generation" of 28mm Ptolemaic cavalry :)

As for Arabs, they will continue to be an enigma. Their position in the battleline at Raphia makes it seem like they were formed infantry. But there isn't much that would point to armored, or heavy infantry. Of course since they did nothing prominant we can also assume that they were deployed as formed infantry, but were not suited for the role, or were at least, not as good as the mercenary Greeks opposite. And, of course, we don't have much than guesses as to how the mercenary Greeks were armed and equipped either. If the Greeks were a pike phalanx, then the Arabs are understandibly "toast".

So Sabin's 'educated guess' is as good as any, I would not call them "heavy" infantry though. The other caveat is that our information about Seleucid deployments tend to serve up a notion that they often didn't have a clue sometimes in how to deploy their army. The masses of unidentifiable troops in front of the line at Magnesia- were uselessly thrown in the way… so I reckon one can't always rely on deployment sense for the Seleucids, which also kind of invalidates the idea of deployment equals a certain type of troop.
My guess is that some (or most) of the Raphia Arabs were armed similar to the thureophoroi, just as the Idumeans are identified later on. Others may have been archers, and other lights skirmishing in front of the main unit.

I'm also not keen on this idea that all pre-Islamic Arabs did not wear head coverings…. wasn't the sun hot enough to make you blind back then as well? Certainly the dust was just as thick, and the nights just as cold. These Arabs running around bare headed and in diapers, somewhat defies logic. At least the Magister Militum figures are wearing tunics instead of diapers.

When I do some work with Arabs I intend to go to the Wargames Factory Numidian pack, and see what I can come up with.
JJ

JJ

Thanks.

My comment was more about the diet of current Successor cavalry overall – clearly they now eat more milk and meat hence are mm taller!

The problem I have is what to do with my Naismith Seleucid Companions, RAFM Carthaginians as well as Minifig 'Greeks' -all 25mm. They are hard to have on the same table, not even trying to mix into a unit of newer figures!

Not quite sure what Sabin actually means by 'heavy' infantry in any event. I suppose most figures follow illustrations in WRG books – hence the lack of head coverings and diapers. Looking again at WRG's AMPW I note that the 10,000 Arabs at Raphia could include archers, spearmen and others – if you follow the DBMM list this could be depicted as a 'horde'!

The idea of using the WF Numidians is a good one – will certainly bear it in mind.

Cheers

Garry

All the figures of today have scale creep. By 2020, 15mm will be 28mm, 28mm will be 35mm. By then we will need a correction….
I just use my old figures and compensate by not mixing them with smaller figures in the same unit, and my 25's have thicker bases, which is a cheap visual trick. Still some 32mm sized 28's are impossibly big. But I'm slowly converting to the upscale figures as they come out.
JJ

The Seleucids turn back the Ptolemaic army!!!

link

(The Memphis Gazetteer, stops the scribing!!)
JJ

Outstanding review, great pictures,thanx's

Yes a very good review; nice to see armies deployed in a historical manner.

I had an email exchange with LBM about the lack of any Successor 'banners' (or rather transfers for Gripping Beast/1st Corps and other metal standards). The problem was acknowledged but as there was not that much demand for Successor transfers little could be done.

JJ and Paul – I hope that excellent accounts like yours will show that this is not the case!

Build it and they will come.

Reports from the front finally arrive:

link

JJ

I'd like some successor banners, too. I wonder whether we could get a list of interested parties to Steve at LBMS? Is anyone else after them?

Simon

I make my own banners, as they are one-offs. Some have started to use LBMS shield transfers for banners. I think that is a weak solution since banners are square and shield designs are round.

I am, however, making a sheet of shield transfers for my machimoi shields, since I don't really want to paint 40 of them. I may experiment with making a standard transfer as well.

Oh well, the next project is my old Newline armored Asian elephant, which I want to do a step-by-step document for jollies.
I was waiting for the "book" to come out to make an elephant process set of shots.. but by then I might be dead… who knows.
JJ

"There is not yet a "new generation" of 28mm Ptolemaic cavalry :)"

A comment which channeled the response!!

link

So New Ptolemaic 28mm cavalry ARE on the near horizon.
JJ

"JJ" and "Paul" thank you for the report and army list, outstanding!

BRB – happy to be included in any demarche on LBM.

Cheers

Garry

Action resumes, news from the frontier. Glorious victory, ignominious irony, giant elephantry.
JJ

link

Good to see the new Nellie in action – seems 1st Corps has been feeding their herd some serious hormones.

The comment about Successor resources in the conclusion sadly sums it up well – they were on a hiding to nothing against Rome.

JJ and Paul, thanks for some very entertaining battle reports (and all the eye candy!)

That 1st Corps elephant looks like it would give the Empire Models elephant a run for its money :P

Cheers,
Paul.

"That 1st Corps elephant looks like it would give the Empire Models elephant a run for its money"

--------> It is definitely out of this world, I mean not of this Earth.
JJ

The Eagle circling overhead is a very nice touch, it really looks like you guys are having fun! I wanna play too!

That eagle is one of my "Stubborn" markers. This was a very good phalanx game, very intense as they held and held. The other games saw the phalanxes bolt quickly, which is upsetting. (When they are yours that is :)
JJ

Yep this was a very good game. You know it's a hard fight when most of the phalanxes loose the Phalanx special rule due to casualties.

I put up my battle report on my blog.

paulwargamespot.blogspot.com

Paul R

Very enjoyable battle reports! Nice armies, too.

Simon

Guys, very nice reports and figures! Mike Adams

Macedonians are for girls. Get some Romans.

Gaius Panicus

I posted the latest Seleucid beat down on my blog.

paulwargamespot.blogspot.com

We'll have to see what type of propoganda come out of this :)

Well done again Paul. Always enjoy your posts.

Just thinking out loud, at one time or another both these kingdoms fielded 'imitation legionaries'. Polemarch does some nice ones – have not checked recently but suspect so does 1st Corps. For some added colour might be interesting to add these – especially as recruiting new phalangites must be getting hard.

Presumably when the Great King does arrive he will be bringing some of his prized scythed chariots?

Garry

link

The campaign continues…..
JJ

Couldn't get on to Ancient Battles, this AM.

I really fancy a unit of those Polemarch Imitation Legionaries, or at least of the Thorakitae.

Simon

JJ,please keep up the great campaign The pics and story line is great. What happened with Hooters in Thrace? Mike Adams P.S. Hi Simon!

Mithridates, the way our campaign is setup I don't have access to the later Seleucid units like Imitation Legionaries or Cataphracts yet. Currently the timeline is still around the Battle of Raphia. After phase 1 of the campaign winds down and the Seleucids return from their battles in the east I'll be able to field the Cataphracts.

I have some of the really nice 1st Corp Hetairoi and new Polemarch thorakitai and guards I need to painted up so my King can make his appearance. The chariots will be a bit longer. I haven't picked out a model to get yet.

Paul

I was able to log on this PM; a very fine looking game!

Inspired, I put my own vestigal Hellenistic army on the table tonight, for the very first time. Photos to follow.

Hi Mike!

Cheers, Simon

Jeff and Paul – always appreciate the time and effort into your accounts. They make great reading and the display is first class. I look forward to seeing the Seleucid massed elephant array…………………

Simon – Polemarch imitation legionaries have four options – 2 'throwing' and 2 'marching' with pila held by their side. For some reason one of the throwers has a marginally larger face and x 4 certainly fits far more easily onto a 60mm base. The marching guys are better with arms slightly bentd so the pila are held as straight as possible – otherwise it is a devil of a job to have them side by side on the 60mm base.

Cheers

Garry

Hi Garry,

I'll bear that in mind, thanks.

Simon