"Colors for horses in the ECW?" Topic

So what would be the type and therefor the colors of ecw cavalry horses? Roan? Dun? Chestnut? I'd like to be accurate and representative of typical horseflesh. Thanks!

We can't even be sure what flags they carried or the colour of their coats, never mind the colour of their horses.

I go for general brown, chestnut and black colours -- regular normal horses, nothing exceptional. I've seen no mention at all of anything like the napoleonic habits of putting formations on colour-coordinated horses or anything like that.

I've seen very little mention of horse supply either, so presumably there would be no real shortage of heavy draught horses, or of riding horses. Cavalry horses trained to operate in battle and not panic at gunfire would probably have been in shorter supply.

So the horses are likely to be whatever was available, and therefore just "regular brown farm workhorses" would be appropriate.

??? Just don't paint them like the Poles did…or he@@, paint them like the Poles did and dare anyone to tell you you were wrong! Just look 'em in the eye and say "were you there?"
:)
Just a little levity having to suffer through Tottenham-West Ham game this AM. These teams stink! Man City will finally make the finals…the second best team big money can buy next to Chelsea! But, they're better than any MLS garbage game I've seen this year!

Steve Miller
DFW Irregulars

Browns of various shades were popular throughout the history. Possibly because browns are more natural horse colors that occur in nature. In a documentary I saw about wild mustangs on American planes various browns were more common than grays, whites or blacks. More rare blacks and whites were often reserved for commanders.

"In a documentary I saw about wild mustangs on American planes"

I thought the Mustang WAS an American plane!! :-)

Don't go mocking people's spelling Mike, it could turn nasty. Again.

I don't know why people get hung up about the colours of horses. If you're a cavalrymen I imagine you'd ride just about anything rather than walk.

The five most common colours are chestnut, bay, and dark brown/black, with greys and piebalds bringing up the rear.

Paint the damn things brown and shove a few greys in for variety

He##…paint em pink and tell everyone who asks why you did it "because I can".

well, the feeling I have gotten is that varying shades of brown / chestnut dominate, with blacks, whites and greys making only a small percentage. But what do I know??

I'd hate to have a tan palomino horse in a unit only to find out that color was non-existent until the 1800s or something.

Did commanders really try to get white/greys/blacks b/c they were more rare? I know the "heroic" white horse is often pictured, but no idea if there's any reality in it.

What color is a "roan" horse, anyway? reddish brown?

Of course a photograph on the internet is just a guide

link

link

My suggestion would be to go and look at some real horses. There are lots about, we even have them here in the deepest, darkest Black Country.

A white horse is fairly rare and would probably attract a premium price. Also handy for marking out the commanding officer to his men – and to the enemy of course. Shades of Graves' 'Count Belisaruis' :)

Isn't there some idea about single colour horses having more stamina than Piebalds/Skewbalds? Mind you what do I know I'm a died in the wool infantryman.

as a rule of thumb heavier the cavalry darker the horse ..we talked about this over on NPU
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So…would a pink horse be the "personal aide-d-camp's"?

The only refernce to horse colours in ECW I've ever come across mentioned a troop (in this instance about 50 IIRC) all on bays decorated with ribbons.

I do mine as bays (dark and light), chestnuts with a few black and different greys but with not more than 3 or 4 the same in a unit of 12.

What color is "bay"? I have chestnut and dark chestnut colors, and one that looks reddish called 'roan'.

While it seems like a small question, cavalry horses make a big presence in miniatures, being larger than the figures, and attract the eye. My book on "Horses", which is a British book, talks a lot about the British breeds and many have distinctive coloring, while greys and whites seem pretty rare.

So I think it is a valid question to pursue. Since they have to be a color, I'd like to have historical ones, just like cannons.

I seem to remember that Cromwell wrote to someone asking for a 'good black horse' probably a high quality cavalry charger – officers and generals for the use of!

There are some ECW portraits with horses in – King Charles on a light brown one for example. I guess these will show the 'Ferraris' of the horse world, whereas most troopers would have to put up with whatever they could get, borrow, buy, beg or steal, or even worse for dragoons.

HC

Put 'Bay horse' into google, select images and see what comes up…

What color is "bay"? I have chestnut and dark chestnut colors, and one that looks reddish called 'roan'.

See those links in my last post? Try clicking them, one's British, the other American.

You get variations of 'roan' BTW,. Strawberry, blue, sorrel

link

While it seems like a small question, cavalry horses make a big presence in miniatures, being larger than the figures, and attract the eye. My book on "Horses", which is a British book, talks a lot about the British breeds and many have distinctive coloring, while greys and whites seem pretty rare.

I assume it's a modern book? If so bloodstock and breeding wasn't so far along then as it is now. The colours of 17th century horses could look different. Richer officers could have ridden imported horses. 'Spanish' and 'Arab' types had quite a cachet even then.

So I think it is a valid question to pursue. Since they have to be a color, I'd like to have historical ones, just like cannons.

Given the above, it's a chimera. Don't worry about it. There are no 17th horse breeders around to question your choice of colours

i always thought it would be a variety of colours, I doubt it troops let alone regiments could pick their colours.

as far as i am aware there was no remount function so horses were gained from wherever they cold be obtained so size breed and colour would be left to chance and the cavalry would present a very mixed appearance for horses.

There's a good pub in York called the Bay Horse or at least there was last time I was there.

There does seem to be change in horse colors in the 17th century. I do not know if there is new blood line introduced to Europe or a change in the style of painting, but if you look at medieval European illustrations of horses they are all solid colors with no head or leg markings. Asian illustrations do show these markings from similar period works. These marking start to appear in the 17th century so it appears that new colors and marking are entering the horse stocks of Europe rather than a different painting style.

while I admit there are no 17th C. breeders around, if there's anything people might keep documents on it would be something as important as breeding horses. So I still say there is historicity there. But for those of you who want to paint your horsies dalmation spots and palomino. knock yourselves out.

I did check those links, and they did help, thanks!

Nah…I'll stick to pink…especially for my Hesse-Cassel general's horse! :)

But for those of you who want to paint your horsies dalmation spots and palomino. knock yourselves out.

I paint most of mine chestnut with the odd dark brown and grey to provide a little variety. Whatever the period or geographical location.

In nearly forty years no-one has ever bothered to tell me that I should be painting the horses of my Napoleonic cavalry regiments specific colours, and I think you can guess what my reply would be if they did.

For once, all horses are genetically reds or blacks, no matter the colour they appear to the eye.

All horses sport marks or socks, exceptions (rare) confirming the rule.

The principle "the heavier the cav the darker the horse" seems quite consistent over the centuries.

The impression left by a colour to the eye is an important factor when painting minis. Imagine a regiment of ECW dragoons on shiny blacks…and I think you know what I mean.

Darker and richer colours seem to impress the viewer, so do multi-coloured coats. Non-experts tend to associate these with characteristic "units".

You put plains indians on palominos and US cav on browns! Try it the other way round and people will say there is something wrong about them.

Officers had better quality horseflesh, but that has nothing to do with the colour of the horse's coat.

Horses are like other animals (or men), no 2 are alike!

Cheers

Romain

Here's some advice on horse colours from John Vernon in 1644, via the jolly interesting historical blog 'Investigations of a Dog'

First make choice of a nimble and able Horse of a convenient Stature, of 15 handfuls high, sad coloured, as black, brown, cheasnut, dun, bay, socet, fox, Iron grey, Roe, and the like, for a white horse is not so necessary for thy use, nor so convenient for thy safety, as when thou shalt bee commanded forth on a party in a dark night thou wilt the easilier be discerned by the Enemy, so that if they chance to give fire on you, they will have the greater aime at thee, in regard thou wilt be so visible a marke unto them, it is not save for a Sentinell to have a white Horse in a pitcht field, a file leader being mounted on a white Horse is commonly aimed at by the Enemies Gunners or Musketiers, & so sometimes becomes the overthrow of himself and the rest of the file, some other reasons I could render, but I forbear

Any idea what colour 'socet' is? Google brings up a wide selection of badly-spelt socket sets!

Yeah…"socet"=pink of course!