"Skirmish Gaming -- what bugs you?" Topic

Speaking strictly about sword and spear skirmish gaming (pre gun powder), what aspect of skirmish gaming rules bugs you the most?

I have two:

1. "Run Around" some rules allow players move their figures to obtain a flank or 'back' attack position -- even when the figure being attacked is able to view the entire move. If unsuccessful, the surviving figure then 'runs around' his opponent to deliver a flank or back attack. In essence 1:1 combats are never straight up.

2. "HUD Archers" Almost all skirmish rules I have played have archers with eyes in the back of their heads allowing them to spin and shoot any anything on the table within range.

What bugs you?

mjc

Speaking strictly about sword and spear skirmish gaming (pre gun powder)

Perhaps pirates message board might not be entirely relevant for this?

I find pistols etc in pirates has a similar problem.

Most of the guys I play with would not allow number one to happen unless the "defender" was facing more than one opponent.

We also use "line of sight" rules for archers. If they can't see it, they can't shoot it.

I think there has to be some factor in the rules or scenario that provides an incentive to split the warbands. Too many skirmish games consist of one mob charging at another.

I don't like skirmish games where you can take tons of damage and still live. I'd rather it be harder to get a solid blow in than have a "hit point" degrading system.

Having said that, I don't mind a "hero save" sort of mechanism where a character can try to shake off an otherwise fatal result, especially when I'm playing in a setting where some figures are Heroes and the rest are Lackeys.

Hmm.

OK lets talk about warbands for a minute.

I must confess I have little information on the sword and spear period but . . .

In more modern times, men tend to clump together for mutual support -- even when it may not be good tactics.

So I always felt the 'mob' rules modeled a phenomenon that was likely to occur.

Is there a reason folks fighting with swords and spears would not clump up and fight as a 'mob'?

mjc

I think they would "clump up" to the degree that their weapons would permit if for no other reason than the mutual protection they would enjoy.

As for what bugs me in a skirmish game, I'd say the biggie for me is a lack of an individual or group morale system.

Skirmishs ought to reflect what the individuals can see, not what the player running the miniatures on the board can see: so, no maneuvering for advantage beyond the most immediate enemies at hand. Number one doesn't happen in 1:1 fights, only in outnumbered situations. Troops with missile weapons have to shoot at what they can see throughout the turn, so no whirling around and shooting: also, movement often precludes reloading….

1066.us

Check out Battle Lust by Colombia games much of this is dealt with and you even get command and control in a skrimish game. Great game
William

Any time I play skirmish, we always have house rules that:

1) Allow a defender to turn and face one attacker of his choosing (so he'll always face the most dangerous threat) and

2) Limit archers to a field of fire – usually 180 degrees.

I wasn't implying that the clumping effect was unrealistic, it isn't, it just makes for a rather dull game. I think novel activation systems (e.g. Song of Blades and Heroes) and clever scenarios (e.g. your guys have to find the hidden artefact in the next 8 turns) can steer players away from clumping.

In Pig Wars, you can't be attacked from behind unless you are outnumbered, because the defender can turn to face the attacker. I like that rule, but of course in a fantasy game, I would also allow for a surprise attack.

In most skirmish games I have played, the mini has a 360 degree arc of visibility, thus negating any flank or rear attacks. The figure is assumed to be constantly moving around and looking around for threats.

Sierra, that gets to the time scale of a turn: if the game is reflecting minutes per turn then yes that would be reasonable. But if it is less than half a minute, or (gasp) half a second, (GURPS style), then a 360 degree arc of vision and facing is just wrong….