"Who eats who - Ragers vs. Zombies" Topic

This just keeps me awake ;)

Who would eat who. Would the zombies attack ragers or perhaps the ragers would slash the zombies ?

What do you think ?

Even up the Ragers win. But if outnumbered they lose. When they lose some of the zombies survive. But the rage virus makes some of them smarter. No really…
It's all in here.

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In the movies ragers aren't zombies – they're infected humans. So I guess the zombies would go for them and the zombies would win – every bite equals another zombie eventually!

Garnham Ghast: Another bite, another zombie, but what if they all are infected by the same virus ?
Just that a live person changes into a rager, while a dead one transforms into a zombie ? Would the virus mutate ;) into another variant when the two strains mix in one living body ?

Ed: You playtested such a scenario ? Wow ! :D

Tried watching Night of the Living Dead (1990) and could not stop laughing. It's so hard for me to take zombies seriously.

I cannot even consider a virus reanimating bodies without a functional circulatory system, with muscles falling apart and dead brain cells already turned to mush.

Now ragers, that's another story . . .

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Having seen first hand how rabies can affect animals that would normally shy away from humans, it really makes it a terrifying but plausible scenario to have a "Rage" virus that could affect humans the same way.

Check out this fox attack:

YouTube link

So, unless you have a Voodoo priest chanting and magically moving zombies about, guiding their every action, I say Ragers rule!

Zombies = Fantasy
Ragers = SF

CC
"Would the virus mutate ;) into another variant when the two strains mix in one living body ?" LOL. Sounds like the dilemma in the film "Underworld", vampire cannot turn a werewolf, nor the other way around, right?

how about 'Reavers' (from Serenity!)…as Ragers/vs Ragers/vs Zombies…!!

I say drop a load of HOTSAUCE on 'em all, (and leave a few open barrels of Grey Poupon laying around)…and then LEAVE THE AREA!!!!!

(nuke 'em from orbit…only way to be sure!)

By the way…what would happen to those groups if ya tossed a bunch of ALIENS/chestbursters in??? Rage-Zombie Aliens for Rage-zombie Predators to 'hunt'?? (aw heck..throw in some TERMINATORS trying to eliminate all ORGANIC life too!)

the mind doesn't boggle…it's just melts down into a gelatinous mush that Baldwin guy eats with a melon baller…

Slishfully,
Sgt DWW-btod

Dude,

While you're at it . . . throw in some Borg, to assimilate all their uniquenessesses (Ragers, Zombies, Reavers, Aliens, Predators and Terminators) into the overall Borg collective! :)

CC

Cacique Caribe I cannot even consider a virus reanimating bodies without a functional circulatory system, with muscles falling apart and dead brain cells already turned to mush.

The unknown zombification agent in Romero's Living Dead movies has not been positively identified as a virus. Furthermore, according to Day of the Dead, the Living Dead secrete a durable resin that holds them together.

It always bothered me that the Ragers from 28 Days/Weeks Later never attacked each other.

"secrete a durable resin that holds them together."

LOL. Fer real??? That's just too funny.

CC

"It always bothered me that the Ragers from 28 Days/Weeks Later never attacked each other."

And they had living brains.

So imagine how much more indiscriminate the mindless reanimated dead (the zombies) would be in their attacks.

If any of them should be attacking everything on site, including each other, concrete blocks, trees, etc., it should be the fumbling brain-dead zombies.

CC

Nevertheless CC, zombies are attracted to brains, therefore would they attack the ragers ?

By the way CC, zombies and sick humans in World Wide Water, are infected with a fungi. The disease is spread by spores.
In the case of zombies, the fungi grows in their bodies rebuilding some organs and parts of their bodies as well strengthening their limbs. Does that make the zombies more believable ? ;)

"It always bothered me that the Ragers from 28 Days/Weeks Later never attacked each other."

It may be down to smell and the drive to infect. Other Ragers smell wrong.

Do rabid foxes attack each other, and inanimate objects, I wonder? Or just uninfected creatures?

CC

Ed: You playtested such a scenario ? Wow ! :D

Yes, and it's insane trying to survive on the table with both Ragers and zeds running/shambling around.

Which movie started the brain eating thing?

Most of the classic zombie movies had them gnawing on arms, legs, guts in fact any meat that was easy to get at.

I have seen a rabid animal attack its own tail.

In other news, define "win" for purposes of this scenario. Ragers attack zombies. Zombies bite ragers. Ragers beat zombies until zombies quit moving, which could take a while. Meanwhile, ragers are dropping dead and becoming zombies.

End result: zombies, no ragers. Therefore, I would tend to believe the zombies would eventually take the field…

And the "Return of the Living Dead" series -- the first two of which were intended as comedies -- started the brain eating trope. The George Romero zombie films simply had the dead wanting to eat the living, and nearly all of the Italian zombie films have followed this thinking.

Other zombie films, notably the "House of the Dead" flicks, have followed any or no trope, aren't consistent, and often don't make a lot of sense.

Since zombies supposedly zero in on brain activity, ragers would attract zombies like flies, since their brains would be so revved up. That would make a good diversion for a human trying to make an escape….

My gaming buddy is a big zombie fan. I work in the medical field, so I know a thing or two on how a body works. For a whole year we went around and around the subject. Now we dont talk about it, except when I come up with scifi ideas on zombies. He is a Romero traditionalist through and through, he likes them dead and reanimated even if he cant explain it to my satisfaction.

This arguement has as many versions as there are versions of zombies.

It really comes down to how you work them, but the big thing to remember is that ragers are still alive and zombies usually are not (though not always).

-Eli

I like how they did it in "The Morningstar Strain" books. The living infected acted like ragers, biting others to spread the virus. after you killed them unless you cut off or shot them in the head the virus would take total control and reanimate the body like a zombie and try to spread the virus. No eating the living or brains just a virus doing what some of them do best, re-program the host body and brain so it can live.

Has anybody ever done one where zombism is the byproduct of a realistic parasitic life cycle?

If not, you could have the various states of zombiehood be different stages in the life cycle of the parasite.

Stage One – The bite from a shambler infects the new host with immature parasites.

Stage Two – Immature parasites move to brain and begin to feed and grow damaging and overriding higher brain functions creating "Ragers". The Rager phase produces elevated levels of hormones and other chemicals whic hthe parasite uses to mature.

Stage Three – Now mature, and having devoured most of the brain, the mature parasites release their eggs into the rest of the host body turning it into a "Shambler". These eggs hatch into larval parasites and spread to inhabit the blood and tissues of the zombie. The zombie then spreads these immature parasites through bites and other fluids.

-Eli

According to some of the comic extras on the 28 Days later DVD, the ragers single out their targets by smell. For whatever reason, they don't attack other ragers, animals, or the dead.

So, if you're using 28 Days later style ragers, they "should" ignore the traditional, reanimated dead zombie.

Romero style reanimated dead zombies crave living flesh, and 28 Days Later style ragers are still alive. So, zombies should pursue ragers, and just like regular humans, the ragers would eventually be overwhelmed by numbers. Even ragers appear to sleep (or at least rest) and aren't likely to barricade themselves in.

Reanimated dead zombies should be able to infect ragers with their bite, but ragers won't be able to infect the already dead.

Of course I think it was a Romero film that established that zombies will pass over a cancer afflicted human as bad meat, so the same might apply to ragers.

There might not be a fight at all.

Two incredibly dangerous threats that aren't interested in each other, just you!

Please hear me out . . .

I like the idea of insane (but otherwise whole and living) "Ragers", like those in "28 Days Later" and even "I Am Legend".

But, unless you are only dealing with the immediate aftermath of a "Rager" infection, figures for them should be sculpted showing tattered clothing, even rags and loincloths.

The closest thing I've found for them so far has been the "Ghouls" listed halfway down this page:

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They make perfect denizens of collapsed buildings, sewers, tunnels, etc., in ruined cities, as well as the deep caves and canyons of wastelands.

I already asked SLM if they had plans to expand the range to include more variants, but the answer was "not at the moment".

However, if someone was planning to make proper post (not during) apocalyptic Ragers, I say follow their general example, except add the occasional pipe "club", knive, machete, and dress a few of them in blankets and other scavenged materials (for weather, not modesty).

I think that their habits would be very ghoulish as well, involving the hunting down and eating of anyone they can catch. And their hunting strategies would involve quick night raids, because of their sensitivity to light, and to make the most of their enhanced night vision abilities.

And, much like Star Wars "Tusken Raiders", they would hunt in packs, not out of loyalty to each other, but more out of a primal understanding of basic teamwork and its benefits.

That's just how I envision the use of a generic "Rager" kind that would incorporate all the best parts seen in movies and novels.

CC
TMP link

Has anybody ever done one where zombism is the byproduct of a realistic parasitic life cycle?

Just read something (mebbe on aol) about a fungus that infects ants in the jungle. It takes over the brain and programs them to go to the lower leaves and bite into the underside of a leaf. The ant dies with it's mandibles locked and the fungus eats evrything but the mandible muscles while reproducing and dropping spores on the forest floor for other ants ? Pretty scary ? ?

Wolfshanza,

You are going to love this then:

TMP link
TMP link

Enjoy!

CC

Don't really have to go to other planets for horror, do we ? <lol>

Now if a chicken ate a spore filled ant and pooped in the hog wallow…think of the possibilities

Other than aliens taking over brains and making zombie-like monsters, I can't think of other parasite zombies.

-Eli

Maybe all the money invested here will provide reliable results on how zombies behave:

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CC

Oh, the Rager and the Zombie can be friends.
Oh, the Rager and the Zombie can be friends.
The Rager hacks humans if he can smell 'em
The Zombie just craves cerebellum
But that's no reason why they can't be friends.

Mulligan

Why can't they all just get along! :)

CC

I think it went something like this…

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?

I seen you 'round for a long long time
I really 'membered you when you drink my wine

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?

I seen you walkin' down in Chinatown
I called you but you could not look around…

The novel COBRA EVENT describes a possible "Rage" virus being used as a bioterrorism attack. This novel is allegedly based on real science (it's by the guy who did the "Hot Zone" novel that inspired the "Outbreak" movie). This book describes the release of the virus and one of the effects is increased violence… right before the person starts eating his own flesh! It wouldn't be hard to imagine a mutation of the virus leading to the consumption of other people's flesh.

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From Wiki:
It damages the brain stem, the areas that control emotion and violence and feeding. Brainpox eventually causes people to attack themselves and to eat their own flesh. Specifically, the fictional Cobra virus causes the same general type of brain damage as Lesch-Nyhan syndrome. Lesch-Nyhan is a real life genetic disease inherited only by males. Caused by damage to a single gene, it results in a bizarre manifestation of stereotyped self-injury, biting of the lips, fingers, and arms, as well as aggression directed toward other people. The Cobra virus knocks out the gene for an enzyme named hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyltransferase (HGPRT), and that somehow leads to self-injury and autocannibalism. The virus engages in a massive burst of replication, just as the nuclear polyhedrosis virus does, and the last burst almost melts the human brain, triggering this wild change of behavior in the hours leading up to death.

By the way, we need to remember that not "every bite creates a new zombie." Most people who are bitten by a zombie will be EATEN by the zombie. Only those who are bitten and escape will turn into a zombie.

And I think, in the long run, the Shamblers will win because they can lie dormant without food, whereas the Ragers will eventually starve to death.

Zombies beat Ragers easy, Ragers don't seem to have any real reasoning power, they just run around hitting things, so I don't think they would really work out the whole destroy the brain concept. So while they are running around and growling like panthers(for some reason?) the zombies would just bite them.

I don't think the "Rage Virus"(stupid name) would infect a zombie, because it's already dead.

So to me, it's hands down to the zombies, the Ragers might get a few zombies by fortunate circumstance,coincidentally wounding the head, but for the most part they will ineffectively pummel the torso of said zombie and get bitten.

I think that they both bite.

Easy. Ragers win, because there is no such thing as zombies.

Dan
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