"Blowing the dust off my WW2 Minis: VaS vs. GQ3" Topic

WW2 Naval is more or less a sideline for our local group…I have a modest collection of 1/2400 Brit, German & Italian GHQ vessels. We have enjoyed doing some hypothetical carrier ops w/ the Aquilla, Graf Zeppelin, vs. a Brit carrier or two, but also enjoy straight surface action. Playing an abstract game system is just fine for us, as we just enjoy the genre and playing something different vs. our usual horse and musket gaming.

having said all of that, i have the first VaS rule book and we generally liked the way it played. Our sister club in a different city has switched to GQ3 and prefer it to VaS. I was thinking of buying the second VaS supplement with supposedly enhanced rules for air, etc., but was also thinking I might be better off sinking the money into GQ3.

Here are my parameters: Casual game night with all players knowing just enough about WW2 naval to get into trouble. Games would usually be North Atlantic or Med w/ 12 ships or less per side, played on a 7.5 x 3.5 table top. Limited air ops may be included. We need to conclude the game in about 3 hours.

I have read all of the recent threads concerning WW2 Naval rules, especially VaS vs. GQ3. GQ3 seems to get more mention. Given the parameters above, what would the experts say (you'all) would be the best bet: Look at soldering on with VaS or switch to GQ3 and give that a go?

Thanks,
Faron.

I think you will find VaS more to your liking. For me GQ3 borders on the complicated. For quick casual games i would stay with VaS.

I strongly prefer GQ3 but, if your folks already know VAS and like it, why switch?

At 12 ships or under per side, you'll finish in 3-3.5 with both although GQ3 is a good deal slower than VAS when using aircraft. The changes to VAS I've seen don't fix the uber torpedo issues or the gun range silliness but for an evenings fun, will a new GQ3 investment both in dollars and learning the new system, meet your needs?

I agree with McKinstry there. If you're happy with VaS why switch? GQ3 is slightly more detailed and complex and, IMO, will be more rewarding if you play it more often. If you only pull it out once or twice a year, I think the "re-learning curve" would be steeper than for the much more familiar VaS.

Actually – I'd like to suggest a third alternative.

The announcement hasn't made it to the news page, but. . . Naval Thunder: Battleship Row is now available.

It has seamlessly integrated air rules that will make use of air assets in your games a snap. The combat system has greater granularity between different types of ships and ships smaller than battleships can still be highly effective from a gunfire standpoint. There are no problems with torpedoes that are too weak or strong.

Naval Thunder: Battleship Row is available for $14.95 USD from wargamevault.com.

Our advertising hasn't hit the streets yet, but we've still been getting extremely strong sales based on word of mouth from demos we ran at GenCon. We're currently alternating back and forth between the #1 and #2 top seller at wargamevault.

You can check it out here:

link

I own all three of the above rules and have come to the conclusion that GQ3 is the better game.

An initial look at the rules makes one think that they are more complicated but reality is quite different if you were to dig into and learn them your will find out they are simple. If you host a game for the newbees and you know the rules they will pick up on the mechanics very fast. Say one to two turns maximum.

One way to speed up the GQ3 rules is to improve the ship data sheets with the additional information required to play the game.

"If you're happy with VaS why switch?"

i think it comes under the "just curious" column…it has been 1.5 years since we have played Naval Minis. No matter what system we use it would require re-learning VaS or learning a new system all together. So jumping into a new rules set would not be unreasonable. We had some of the same issues that are mentioned above w/ VaS, but I was hoping some of this had been resolved with the supplement.

Naval Thunder: Battleship Row looks interesting…I may give these a look-see as well.

Thanks for the comments and I welcome others as well.

take care, Faron.

General Quarters III does look like it is more complicated, but that is only because it is very comprehensive. GQIII is, in fact, very simple, and players are capable of getting into the hang of running their own ships in one to two turns. It really does maintain the ease of play of the original, while capturing the realism of modern naval warfare. The air warfare rules are well-integrated into the game, allowing you to add detail as you want for the aviation-inclined. And it is well-supported by after market products via the Old Dominion GameWorks web site, odgw.com. Have a look there to see more details on the game.

Best of luck, no matter which you choose!

Cheers,
gregoryk

I have a copy of GQ3 but have not read through them yet. However, I used to play the previous edition of General Quarters' rules and found them to be very easy to use, and to be very fast. For the most part once you get the movement and combat basics down pat we rarely had to dive into the rule book for anything. We simply moved our ships, fired our torpedoes and guns, rolled the dice, and consulted the appropriate tables. Trying to find an old copy of the 2nd edition GQ rules might be an option worth exploring.

The changes to VAS I've seen don't fix the uber torpedo issues or the gun range silliness but for an evenings fun

Can you comment on the gun range silliness So I understand what you mean.

Have a look at Naval Thunder as well. Our group are currently trying various naval rules and so far VaS has been dropped in favour of Naval Thunder 2nd to GHQ Micronauts and GQ3 which are neck and neck. Looks like it may come down to which has the better (easier?) air and Sub rules.