"Help! 3.5 D&D question" Topic

One of my players is a Druid he has made a Rhino his Animal companion now he wats to make it fly with his Master of Winds power.

The rules I find seem to say he can do it.

I need help to find a rules based reason to either not allow it or make him not want to do it.

Help!

Michael

If you can "make" a player change their mind then you're a better DM than I am. I've never played D&D 3.5 (or anything beyound 1.0, if truth be told)so I'll make a few suggestions:
"That is an un-natural thing to do. It goes against everything your teachers taught you"
"Yes of course you can do that, but it might make the rhino so angry he will attack anything in sight on landing – including you"
"Yes, you can do that, but don't stand underneath him when he takes off"
"Yes you can do that, but if you lose concentration while doing it, then you will be short one Rhino, and there will be significant risk of collateral damage"
"Yes you can do that, but everyone in sight will need to save against fear of it coming down – and if they save againt that, then make a second save or they will fall on the floor LTAO"

Where is this power from?

You are the DM; You are the god of your world; what you say goes. That's rules enough for the group I play with.

Tell him No. If he refuses, point at the door. Some powers are far too powerful for the game, though if he has the ability to have a Rhino animal companion, and make it fly, I doubt you can't must up something to kill it with fairly.

If it is reeking havok on your party, let him do it, and make such a situation that it seems like a good idea, then it can be eaten by a Roc.

a Roc, a Dragon….

Lotsa big flying carnivores out there…

Flying removes all cover and conealment. Flying is an unnatural thing for the Rhino his ability to attack and defend himself will be greatly diminished. Without a ranged weapon to go with his flying he will find it difficult to project his power without landing; otherwise he's just a goofy flying mount. And as Volstaff said, plenty of flying carnivores looking for a tasty treat at 2000 feet.

Why not just let him do it? what's the big reason not to?

As suggested, let him do it but extract all kinds of drawbacks from it.

Maybe Rhinos don't like to fly and panic/berserk/go catatonic while airborne…

Maybe after landing, the Rhino collaspes with vertigo/airsickness for a turn (turn, not a round) while recovering from the trauma.

What is the exact wording of the Master of Winds power? Lawyers are sharpening their knives as we wait…

Gracias,

Glenn

Without addressing the power itself, you can come up with the number of tricks the animal companion needs to be taught to be an effective mount while flying. That could be a high enough number that important tactics won't be available.

Lots of good suggestions so far. More problems to encounter:

Rhinos have poor vision, meaning the poor thing flies into things or misjudges landings.

Rhino limbs are designed to support their massive weight *on the ground*. When airborne, those limbs hang down unnaturally, possibly becoming dislocated. They certainly would have difficulty absorbing the shock of landing.

So, how about this scenario, incorporating many of the ideas above: Your druid faces the rhino, waves his arms like a madman, and the rhino suddenly rises from the ground and begins soaring away. As she rises (yes, it's a lady rhino), her legs drop and become painfully dislocated. Bellowing in agony, she loses control of her bowels, showering onlookers with tens of pounds of rhino feces and urine. Twisting in the air as the druid attempts to maintain control, the rhino slams headfirst into the local crime boss's house, collapsing the home and killing one or more members of the boss's family. The druid panics and decides to return the rhino to earth, but the rhino's dislocated limbs cannot support her weight and she collapses in even more agony than before. Struggling ungainly to her feet, completely out of the druid's control, she begins charging everyone and everything in sight. She eventually is overcome by the pain and passes out in the middle of the street. The onlookers are angry and demand that the druid pay their dry-cleaning bills, at the very least. The crime boss is now out for the druid's blood. The druid's deity is *very* disappointed at this abuse of power, and after healing the rhino and sending her on her way (after all, it wasn't her fault), the deity strips the druid of just about all of his power, or even abandons the druid.

Things just got *very* interesting for that *very* stupid druid.

This is all assuming the druid wasn't trying to use the rhino as a mount the first time airborne. If he was, he's in even worse shape, if not dead.

Sorry it's Master Air not winds, Druids animals gain the spells of the Driud.

Lots of great ideas… my main problem is the player, not the effect itself. If we hadn't been friends and gaming together for 15 years, I might tell him to hit the door, but since we have been playing for 15 years I know how much of a pain he is about to become if I don't nip it in the bud.

Here is the spell
The caster grows insubstantial wings & flies at
a speed of 90' (60' if in medium or heavy
armor) with Good maneuverability. ½ speed
going up, 2x speed going down. If spells
expires/is dispelled, subject descends at 60'
per round for 1d6 rounds before falling.

As long as he's not going to hold a torch to the rhino's rear to light the 'afterburner' (talk about "Master of Winds"!), let him fly it around. Better yet, have the transformation spell have a chance of -shrinking- the flying rhino to a size he can't even ride….

I don't play D&D and I'm not familiar with that spell, but your description of it says "the caster grows insubstantial wings & flies". Sounds to me that it only allows the spell caster to fly – not others.

You should allow him to do this, but make sure you apply ALL the rules that may pertain. For example, a rhino is an "alternate animal companion" and there is a penalty to using it. The rhino may only have the druid's abilities as if the druid were 6 levels lower than the druid's actual level. Since you must be at least a 7th level druid to have a rhino companion, the rhino would start out with at least level 1 abilities. Since "Master Air" is a casting level 2 spell, a druid must be at 8th level or higher for the rhino companion to be able to use this spell (as the rhino would only be a level 2 for ability to cast spells and is limited to 1 casting level 2 spell per day). [Sometimes I think they went out of their way to create confusion by having character levels and casting levels and then using the term "level" both ways in the same description without clarifying which level is being referred to.]

You didn't mention the spell duration. This usually is associated with the maximum casting level of the person using the spell. Take a look at how this would limit the rhino's use of the spell. Also determine whether or not the rhino is permitted to engage in HTH combat while using the spell. Determine any penalties involved and make sure you use them each round.

Enforce all checks pertinent while using this spell.

Look up the details for rhinos under 3.5. Apply them and don't allow those that require the rhino to be on the ground for use (such as the charge bonus). I'd take the attitude for special stuff that if it doesn't say it applies while the animal is airborne, then the animal can't use it. The animal's abilities are based on its natural capabilities …and flying isn't one for a rhino.

I think you see the picture here. Permit the use, but make sure every possible limitation/consequence is scrupulously applied.

"At the druid's option, she may have any spell (but not spell-like ability) she casts upon herself also affect her animal companion. The animal companion must be within 5 feet of her at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the animal companion if the companion moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the animal again, even if it returns to the druid before the duration expires."
Players Handbook, p.36

Based on that reading it seems, as you wrote, that there is no reason he couldn't cast Master Air on the rhino. Within that, however, you could rule that:

1) The rhino can fly as long as it remains within 5 feet of the caster.

This is a pretty iron clad condition of the rule. So, the druid now has to figure out a way to stay within 5 feet. He could cast another Master Air spell on himself and the 2 would have to remain within 5 feet or the rhino's spell would go away (thus dropping as per the spell description) or he will have to ride the rhino, which introduces questions of if the druid has the ride skill and/or if the rhino has ever been trained to accept a rider.

In either case, I think you as a DM would be well within your bounds to introduce difficulty checks in both cases, especially if the flying involved any kind of non-linear maneuvers.

2) The rhino sprouts "insubstantial feathery or bat-like wings (your choice)" and then just stands there as it does not have the intelligence to understand or manipulate its temporary new ability. The rhino "can" fly as per the spell but it has no idea what flying is, that it currently has this ability or how to go about exercising this mode of movement.

You might then rule that flying could be one of the "tricks" that the animal can learn as per the animal companion rules. In this case it would probably be something like the DC25 "push an animal" check in the Handle Animal skill (p.74).

I would argue that getting the beast to recognize and understand what wings are would be another trick, requiring the druid to consistently and regularly enact certain conditions to get the rhino to recognize and respond (another "trick" and DC check). Given the oddity of the event (sprouting wings), I would imagine this DC would be pushing a 30 and would require weeks, months or even years of dedicated training to achieve.

Even then, the conditions of possibility #1 still apply, requiring even more tricks and/or solutions.

3) The spell works, the rhino sprouts wings and stands there as it has no idea how to fly. Furthermore, flying is such an alien concept to a rhino that there is no possibility of it ever understanding or utilizing this ability. Spell wasted.

Personally, since D&D is supposed to be all about role playing I'd look at this as a chance to develop the storyline between the druid and his companion. I'd let him try to train the animal but make him describe how he intends to do it and engage him through the process. I might even come up with some magic item that would give him a +5 to his Animal Handling skill as a rumor/seed for an adventure or maybe have the training affect his standing in whatever community he lives in as people react to this bizarre new obsession with making a rhino fly "that'll be the day…when rhinos fly!" might become the new punchline of the entire town.

In the end, if he made it work it would be a unique, character identifying ability, a challenge surmounted that will be recalled for years. It could open the door to any number of other adventure opportunities and define the campaign. If it fails your friend will not be able to say it was simply because you were a killjoy or a sandbox king.

It's a classic case of myth-making. Sadly, this isn't Runequest/HeroQuest.

If the Druid is seeking advice on this, instead of trusting magic to do it right the first time, suggest via an NPC that, per the suggestions above, that "Rhinos don't know how to fly, so this one won't want to".

If he's willing to make a long-term goal out of this, run with it, discovering the steps needed. This could range from adapting or making a specialized version of Horseshoes of the Zephyr to let the rhino get used to running without touching the ground, to a visit to some faeries who can "tinkerbell" the rhino for short periods, to delving deep into Druidic concepts of reincarnation to "remind" the rhino that it was a stork in a prior life. That's probably a quest or two right there.

Of course, then there's the problem of eyesight. Rhinos don't see very well. The potential for comedy is vast.

Ultimately, a flying rhino is preferable to some of the other flying options he could come up with. Let him throw money and time at the problem.

And when the rhino was gotten used to it all, and accompanied the Druid on a few epic adventures via flight, make it obvious that the rhino is getting old and should be retired. Make it plain that keeping the rhino in service will cost the Druid his power.

Then have rumors come in from the veldt, a few years later. Rhinos with wings. Old Thundercloud has bred truer than should be possible…

Sheesh. How about telling the player a rhino with wings is an abomination to nature. Well, that's how my druid would see it.

Also, how does one go through a dungeon with a rhino? How do you feed it?! Strange choice.

Are you role playing or "dungeon crawling"?

Why do you want to stop him?

Sounds like it will be fun working with him to over come all the obstacles to his weird objective. Since the benefits must always be balanced by the costs, there should be plenty. If flying rhinos were that cost/benefit effective they'd be a lot more common amongst druids

Don't just say "you can't do it, fullstop!". Let him try and make it interesting, with an appropriate reward/effort ratio like any other role-playing activity.

I really like Farstars suggestions.

So, the druid now has to figure out a way to stay within 5 feet. He could cast another Master Air spell on himself

That wouldn't be necessary, since the Master Air spell had to be cast on the druid first, with the choice to extend it to the companion:

she may have any spell (but not spell-like ability) she casts upon herself also affect her animal companion.

Just nitpicking, and there are plenty of other good ideas here.

As the DM I'd have a field day with this one.

"Sure, you can try that…"

Hopefully your player will get bored with the challenges of flying rhinos and focus his -and your – valuable playing time on something that will push your campaign ahead.

The reasoning spelled out above is brilliant work by gamer tom and John Fletcher. If you are VERY serious about the distance and time limitations, this will be just too much trouble to work with. Also, you unless the druid is using some sort of animal telepathy to explain what the druid is about to do, then you should roll vs. fear to see if the Rhino panics and tries to flee (thus putting him out of the spell range and, potentially, injuring himself when he falls).

By the way, just where the heck is your campaign set? I can't picture a rhino working in any faux-European setting without causing instant panic. And, if he's brought the rhino outside of his natural habitat, perhaps it's time you started having the foreign climate start affecting the poor beast? Require a roll vs. disease from parasites in its food or water. Or if they are in a chill place, have the poor thing catch a cold. At some point have the druid himself realize that it's not wise to upset the balance of nature by moving an animal from one climate to another. You might even use this as a chance to run a quest to return the poor creature to its own land.

Lots of great suggestions/fixes above. Don't forget that Wyverns (as a fairly common temperamental aerial pest) LOVE large flying meat snacks, YUM!

Besides sounding dumb, I don't see what's wrong with a flying rhino. Not a game-breaker. Wait till he shapeshifts into a treant and continues to cast spells. Then he grapples all your npc spellcasters and your adventures are ed.

It's more an issue with the player than the rhino he has been playing for 20 years and still doesn't understand what it means to roleplay. He is a power gamer through. He still plays the sheet and not the character. He would be happy as a caster to have two or three powerful offensive spells and one powerful defensive spell and have at it. The reason he picked the rhino wasn't because it would help the group…but simply because its big, strong, tough, and hits hard. He doesn't see that it will be more of a hinderance than a help in actual "roleplaying". He would be happy for his character to be far superior to ours, kill everything with one shot, and look down at the peasants. He would relish in that. Personally we know thats not roleplaying but he has never had a clue. He has to be forced to roleplay..we have to drag him into it…and when he does he is not good at it…simply because he doesn't want to do it. His trite two or three word answers are the staple for all his characters. He doesn't understand that he is interacting with a "world" and "people" which need to be treated like the people he deals with in the real world or there would be consequences. He doesn't understand consequences. He treats most NPC's like dirt and when we respond with the fact they don't like him anymore, he doesn't understand and gets upset or tells them to go smack themselves. Most roleplaying groups would not put up with his crap for two adventure, but as I said earlier we have been suffering with him for 20 years.

A number of relationships break down after even 20 years when it becomes screamingly obvious that one party isn't worth the effort of even being polite… :-)

Then I don't think not letting him have the rhino will help. He could have picked a dire ape, or tiger, or giant boar or something. That wouldn't be any better. You can't expect him to keep a 1st level companion like a boring wolf or hawk. There's nothing wrong with picking something because it's big and tough, as long as it makes sense.

Obviously a rhino won't be going into towns, or into dungeons or castles. It'll only be useful in outdoors adventures. Remember that animal companions are not slaves. Let him control it until he wants it to do something it wouldn't actually do. But if they're outside and a fight breaks out, let him have his flying rhino.

Ah, my condolences. Most munchkins grow out of it, or at least broaden their tendencies over time.

This is then the time to pull out the animal training rules and beat him over the head with them. Without them, the magic of the spell and power will only go so far on an animal as dumb as rhinos get, and "circumstance penalties" will make everything the rhino does harder.

Ah, my condolences. Most munchkins grow out of it, or at least broaden their tendencies over time.

Nope, he will never grow out of it because we have pandered to him for too long.

Michael