"20mm 'soft plastic'... Getting better every day?" Topic

I've recently been given some of the Zvesda Samurai figures which I think are really impressive and although they're not my period, I can't ignore how far these types of figures have come since the heady days of the Airfix British Combat infantry figures which I avidly collected as a youngster, more years ago than I care to remember!

In fact, judging by what I've seen so far, I just might be tempted to resurrect, my long dormant Napoleonic campaign plans, as I think that they might just be affordable now, thanks to the figures from the likes of Zvesda and Italeri, to name but two…

So, are there any other 'soft plastic' figure enthusiasts out there who are just waiting to come out of the closet? Come on, you know who you are…

Ther are so many 20mm plastic miniatures in my closet there is no room for me in there.

I painted the Zvesda Old Guard sapper for our game of Song of Drums & Shakos this weekend. It's amazing how well detailed they are these days.

Absolutely, I just finished HYW armies for Basic Impetus using mostly Zvezda 1/72. They are superb. There are some excellent Napoleonics emerging as well.

D

Zvezda are very nice indeed!

Check out HaT, Italieri, Caesar, Revell, IMEX and ESCI for even more figures.

I have mixed Zvesda, Imex, and Orion Vikings and Saxons, and they're phenominal. I'm really liking them, So much so that a lot of my minis are going to soft palstic for 20mm (except for Vietnam, I can't stand the Italeria dn the like figs out there right now)

As mentioned recently…some of the recent Caesar sculpts have been a big step backward quality wise. Hopefully it is not a trend.

yup, i game almost every period in 20mm plastic,

there are very few eras now without at least the basics available, and they are so cheap you can easily afford to have several armies in each period you play.

regards

jim

I've been a fan of the plastic figures of this type since I was a small boy and my dad bought me an Airfix British Colour Guard set (my first miniatures ever! Huzzah!)

The strides in quality and the huge selection is phenomenal. I have a very complete 28mm collection covering historical, sci fi, and fantasy, but I still collect 1/72 because they are so cheap, they don't take up much room, and they can be gamed with more compactly than 28s.

I've generally become a huge fan of Caeser's moderns, but as CC points out, the quality is patchy at best lately. I was very disappointed with my pinheaded modern US Special Forces troops.

Yup, Zvezda and Hät and Esci and so forth are enabling me to introduce my godson to ancients in a big way. Superb sculpts and animation in their Greek and Persian ranges, a far cry from the days when I would sit with razor blade, Plasticine and banana oil following the intructions in Airfix magazine or Battle for Wargamers to convert stuff! (Airfix Union or Confederate infantry and US cavalry could be turned into just about anything…)

Henry
Battlegames
battlegames.co.uk

I have started two 20mm soft plastic projects but they both fell by the wayside – not because of the quality of the sculpts but for the simple fact that the figures dont hold up to long term (or even short term sometimes) use.

I've tried all of the suggestions about washing in detergent, undercoating in PVA, varnishing matt, satin, gloss, spraying various undercoats of colour, different types of paint etc etc – none of them work completely and I'm pretty damn sure I'm doing it right.

You can get very good results on the whole but things like lances, flagpoles, muskets, swords and bayonets – in fact anything thin and bendy – will always chip when they are used no matter how you prepare the figures or how careful you are. You dont get close to the same degree of this with metal or hard plastic.

In fact the latest attempt is on Ebay at the moment

auction

I may have one last bash at some 20mm soft plastic WWII as they tend to have fewer swords and spears! I just can't face touching up the figures after every game.

Been gaming with them for years for FOW , WAB , Fire and Fury and recently Command and Colours and have never had a problem with paint coming off unless i've initiated it by dropping them from a great distance or similiar .
My only problem is sometimes the details is so fine i miss it completely due to bad eyesight .
On the whole i find the Zvezda and Italeri figures to be the best quality , but i use all the brands together .

The cost alone is worth having both opposing sides sometimes , they look painted en masse too .

cheers Tom

zvezda and hat are my top 2 manufacturers at the moment. Great quality and price. I get a lot less flaking with the new plastics, sometimes none at all. It depends on what paint you use, etc.

Paint flaking off is only a result of not pianting the figs properly. I have been buying and painting 1/72 plastic figs since the 60's when I was a kid. If you wash them with warm, soapy water then prime with rustoleum Plastic Spray Primer and seal with Plasti-dip you simply cannot make the paint chip off unless you use a knife to scrape it off.

Thanks,

John

Thanks for that tip John, I don't know what the UK equivalent is, but I'll do a bit of research.

I switched to 1:72 soft plastics recently.
They are great.
Beside some irresistible VSF and post-apocalypse mini here and there I don't think I will buy anything else in the near or middle future.
Green stuff, a scalpel and a box of plastics and I'm happy.

I have just got a load of Caesar Trojan wars stuff, and the detail is fantastic!! The cost of these sets has alowed me to indulge in a "whim" wich I could not have done in lead.

I think the biggest thing holding more gamers back is the dreaded "paint chip" issue. If only one of the major players would come up with a standardised primer that worked everytime!!!

On a side note has anyone tried the plasti kote primers from B+Q etc? Its so frustrating not being able to get Rustoleum in the uk.

link

I'll give it a try – why not, I've done everything else!

Crusaderminis you absolute star!!! Im going to place an order now!!

I've dumped nearly all my metal figures to go 1/72 plastic. They look like real little people (the good ones, anyway) – the proportions of metal figures make me wince now.

Regarding "paint chip". My method is – wash thoroughly; prime in PVA, paint with acylics; shade with Army Painter; de-gloss with matt varnish. The result is bullet-proof. As an experiment I took a figure and bent and twisted it until its legs snapped. The paint still didn't flake.

Thanks, Nom de Guerre.

I think you've just saved me a load of research time… more time to paint, even better!

I'm doing SYW in plastics (mainly Revell) with a few hat conversions and metals from Art Miniaturen. Old school with units of 54 figures. Zvesda have just released prussian grenadiers and hat are following. I have also followed the painting advice and despite huge amounts of throwing about etc, the paint stays on.

I prime and paint with acrylics, since I had chipping problems with six or seven different spray primers.
None with acrylics.
No Rustoleum to find here in Germany.
But to prime with the brush is a major pain in the ass for mass painting.
So thanks for the link above.
Beside that I also shade with army painter and de-gloss with matt varnish.

Architectus Militaria, before you buy any set, it is ALWAYS worth a visit here:

link

And here is a helpful site as well:

link

Thanks Dave. Must be honest I've taken a few quick looks at the Plastics Review site and its very impressive, particularly in the way that with some of the more popular periods it enables you to compare figures from different manufacturers. Helps you avoid making awkward mistakes!
Mind you it also tempts you into other periods… the Zvesda Polish Winged Lancers are magnificent!

Still not gonna convince me to give up my hard plastic 28mm's!

Definately!…..I started wargaming in the mid-70's using Airfix figures and only got back into the hobby about 18 months ago. I was amazed at the vast choice there is now in plastic figures. I now use Italeri figures and I know there will be players out there that scoff at plastic figures but I think for the cost they are excellent. ..One gripe I do have though…and this is just my opinion, Valiants…why are they so 'big'?… Steroid ration packs perhaps?
Steve SPC Wargame Scenery
spcwargamescenery.com

I see all the Rustoleum has sold out from Amazon uk!!! Bring on the plastic revolution!!

Hi SPC Wargames Creations,

I know what you mean about the Valiant range. I think they're very nice figures which improved significantly as they went along, particularly as far as poses are concerned, but as you say, they are big. In fact, bigger than anything else around. Up until their arrival, you could in theory at least, mix figures from different manufacturers if you REALLY felt you had to. Obviously we all know that SHQ figures looked 'thinner' when compared to Brittania, (and who's to say which one is 'right'?, but let's face it we're none of us exactly the same size… I mean, speaking for myself, when was the last time you saw a miniature figure sporting the signs of 'good living', (a beer gut)?.

No, mixing figures from different manufacturers isn't always a good or visually pleasing thing to do, but you can fiddle things a bit by packing the bases of shorter figures so at least they looked similar as far as their height was concerned. But to match the Valiant figures, I'd have to re-base virtually all my pre-existing WW2 figures and even then they'd never look anywhere near right.

Then of course there's the issue of compatibility with the AFV's. Don't even THINK of putting a Valiant figure next to a 1/76th scale AFV, and even 1/72nd scale AFV's can look too small. Again, you can pack the AFVs' base to get the relative height between figures and vehicles less obvious, but it is in no way ideal! And the British infantry set included some artillery crew… try finding a suitable gun that doesn't appear dwarfed by the crew!

In our club, we keep our collection of Valiant figures completely separate now from our other WW2 figures and vehicles and use them for, primarily infantry skirmish games, which seems to work well!

The other question with the Valiant range is, what's coming next? There were rumours a while back of German paratroopers and British "Mediterranean" infantry but it seems to have gone rather quiet on that 'Front'. Talking of 'Front's, some Soviet and Japanese figures would have been welcome.

The issue of the size of figures as denoted by either mm; 20mm, or a fraction: 1/72nd or 1/76th, has annoyed me for years, and it seems particularly bad for WW2.

I recently bought a Bren gun carrier which, according to the label was 1/76th, but on comparing it to the dimensions of a full size carrier it was perfect 1/72nd scale!

I've bought plastic kits that were originally sold as 1/72nd, and now exactly the same kit is sold as 1/76th!

And don't get me started on ranges denoted by a mm height… So, it's 20mm, is that from sole of boot to eyes/top of head/top of hat??

For me figure and vehicle size should be denoted as 'scale', ideally for my WW2 collection; 1/72nd, which is taken from sole of foot, (base of boot) to top of head. So, if an average man were to be 6ft high (72"), then the figure would be 1" high from base of boot to top of head. Now come on manufacturers, that wasn't difficult was it?

Of course, IF the reason for introducing a new range of figures is to tie people into your range because nothing else will match in……

Returning to 'soft' plastics with which I'm becoming more and more enthused, I can only suggest that, as a previous 'poster' suggested to me, anyone interested in buying any should investigate the Plastics Review website.

link

At least you can compare the stated height of figures and there's lots of other very interesting information on the site too.

I could never find the rustoleum stuff so really appreciate the link.

This product has worked well for me as an alternative, but is rather more labour intensive to apply

link

I've recently started doing Ancients in 1/72 soft plastic (using Basic Impetus atm)- Persian Wars at the moment. The Zvezda Greeks are fantastic, especially the general figure, he paints up great. Pity there are only 12 spear-armed hoplites in each set, though.

I bought some HaT hoplites to pad out the ranks, but found that much to my dismay the shields were all facing sideways for some reason, with the result that they look laughable when ranked up. Looks like Zvezda will be getting more of my money at some point in the future- their Greeks form a great phalanx. You also get a metric tonne of light infantry, so you can build an army just with multiples of the one set.

Next is probably WW2, then the Crusades. The problem with WW2 is there is *too much* variety- even with PSR I have no idea which sets to get.

WereSandwich,

For most, if not all periods, I would start by thinking exactly the same way as you do with metal figures. Think long term.

Consider the figures, nationalities etc., that you might want eventually and look for the range(s) that most closely would meet your requirements.

Then look at PSR and check what other manufacturers have figures of the same height or build. If you find figures with a similar build but they're a bit smaller, simply pack their bases a bit.

My basic rule is that when you use figures from different manufacturers, its the basing that brings all the figures together. Keep the base texture and painting the same, and slight differences between the figures won't be as obvious.

And if there's a figure you particularly want/need which cannot be found or converted from existing plastic figures, remember that there are a few companies that produce 20mm figures in metal in periods other than WW2!, including Tumbling Dice tumblingdiceuk.com and Newline Designs newlinedesigns.co.uk for starters.

Both companies have ranges compatible with '20mm' plastics and between them cover a very wide period of history. And I know of gamers who occasionally use metal figures to 'fill-in' gaps in their plastic ranges, generally for command figures. You'll need to get a sample figure first to check their height against your chosen plastics manufacturer.

Good hunting.

To support what Architectus Militaria says…

There is so much variety that some pre planning is now necessary. How times have changed from the days when I would buy matched airfix boxes from the local Woolworths.

Here's a short guide to how I did it.

First select your period and army(ies).
Go to Plastic Soldier Review and check availability.
Assuming the necessary troop types are available, draw up an army list. This is where it gets interesting.

Basic Impetus has well defined army composition in terms of base count.
You'll need to decide how many figures to put onto each base to come up with an overall figure count for your army.

Return to Plastic soldier review.
If you're fortunate enough to be building a popular army you may have a choice of several manufacturers.
Read the reviews, check the pictures and size comparisons.
Decide whether you wish to mix manufacturers for that irregular look, or stick with one for as many troops as possible.

Take the figure count and decide how you'll populate the bases.
It's sometimes necessary to buy more figures because exact multiples don't match, or because some poses just don't mix well on a base.
(My experience is horse and musket, and I tend to separate figures into commander, marching, shooting and charging/bayoneting poses.
I expect with ancients the skill will be to extract the proportions of appropriately armoured and equipped figures from the mixed packs).

With that done, you have the components you need to order.

Mixing 20mm metals requires (in my experience) a little care.
Plastics have not been immune to scale creep, so average about 23-24mm.
Some are considerably larger than that.
The metals tend to be truer to 20mm, so you may end with the impression of giants commanded by small guys.
It's less of a problem if the commander is on horseback surrounded by infantry.

Good luck

Metals and plastics:

Some observations – Kennington 20mm Naps fit well with HaT plastics if used in small amounts – I use them to provide extra varierty of officers

Les Higgins 20mm Marlburian are WAY too small for Zvezda Great Northern Wars – but I have now discovered the Garrison generals from the 7YW range and these fit really well (except for one horse which is a bit big). But I will use these on dedicated command bases and so I will not tend to suffer a direct comparison. They are a bit bulkier (nowhere near as much as Minifigs though) – which is noticeable with hats, but as these are generals I argue they could afford more flamboyant hats anyway!

So if you want to mix and match, my personal advice through my own use of money is to try a few and see what works for you.

Anyone know how the New Line 20mm stuff fits in with the 1/72 plastics?

I wouldn't mix the Newline in my plastic units. But I freely use them in my plastic armies.

Thanks,

John

Zvezda and Italeri are superb. If you like the samurai you'll love the Janisseries.

Strelets are good for skirmishing (IMHO)

I love the Revell TYW range.

HaT – varible but what a variety, and there good is really good.

We're so lucky these days, I've been saying for the last 10 years or so that if plastics had been this big when I started gaming I'd have probably never bought a metal historical figure in the 15-28mm scale range.

Yeah, there was a point in the USA where the old inifigs was dying, 25mm was virtually dead as a scale and Old Glory was still a new kid on the block. imagine if plastics in the variety and quality available now had been in the marketplace. thisngs might be very different than what we now know. I say this as a guy who absolutely loves plastics but wouldn't give up his metal figs either.

Thanks,

John

Anyone know how the New Line 20mm stuff fits in with the 1/72 plastics?

Newline's new Romans, Franks and Goths fit pretty well with HaTs Roman Medium Infantry. Not sure of the rest of the ranges buut they are advertising that they are scaled to fit 1/72 scale figures.

John

There seems to be some variety of size with the Newline 20mm figs- I have purchased Peninsular British and Portugese in the past and found the Brits to be a bit on the short side against the plastics,whereas the Portugese were a most excellent fit. But it has to be said that there exists quite a bit of variation even with plastics manufacturers- slim Revell figures compared with the giants that Italeri have produced in the last couple of years.
I too seem to have developed quite a stash of unpainted plastic figures, Naps, Vikings/Saxons, ECW, GNW/WSS. The Zvezda stuff is particularly appealing, their Vikings mix really well with the Emhar Vikings. Thankfully manufacturers seem to be including fewer of the useless poses that used to be in abundance in the older Airfix sets I collected as a lad in the 70's.
On the subject of painting- I have no problem with chipping etc. I use acrylic paints for undercoat and main paintjob and then varnish with Jo Sonja folk art satin acrylic varnish, sometimes two coats, and that's it. As long as they don't rattle around loose in an old icecream container like I had as a ten year old in the 70's, the paint job should last through plenty of battles.
Plastic 28mm just doesn't do anything for me- just that bit too big, more expensive, take longer to paint, and require a bigger wargames table.
Has anyone else tried painting up Zvezda's GNW Russians as WSS British or French? Is there any plastic Artillery that would go with them?

don't use any primer on them at all, paint them using GW paints, and laquer them. no problems with them at all. used to use humbrol etc before acrylic water based paints came about, but even so, large chunks of the collection dates back to the 70's and are not chipped!

JS – I am painting the GNW Russians in red so I assume that they will pass muster as Brits from the wargaming distance. They look nice. The closed coat will (except for the purist) work for most WSS figures.

And artillery – the Zvezda russian artillery is an excellent kit, and they are to produce a Swedish set.

Not sure about the Strelets' sets though. Some people like them

I forgot to add – we let them soak in bleach – it leaves no residue unlike soapy warm water :-)

Cheers Marc for the info, I haven't checked PSR site for quite a while to see what's new. Personally I'm not overly excited by Strelets stuff either.
I have already painted up a few of the Russians as Brits and even carved off the Russian standard emblem and did paint conversion to St. George cross- looks cool. The drummer paints up really nicely in reverse colours too. Have started trying to convert Call to Arms ECW artillery into WSS guys, chopped a hat off one guy and replaced with a tricorn, looks ok, and I think they were still using pretty similar artillery in the early 1700's. I bought 2 boxes of Russian GNW infantry so I might try painting some up as French- or would the Zvezda Swedish uniform be more appropriate?

I use the Swedes as "French-style" as they have turnbacks, but the closed coat is also appropriate.

Hey Marc have you gamed this period in plastics yet or still building up your collection? I notice you do Napoleonics & WW2, is that in plastic or metal?

Bro and I are one artillery set away from our first game using the old Charles Grant rules. We set ourselves a year's painting project, which is actually 8 days of painting together – 4 days for infantry, 2 days for cavalry and two for artillery. Infantry was two units (half sized regiments of 24 plus 4 command) in a day, and cavalry was 2 half sized regiments (12 plus 3 command), and artillery was two guns, two limbers and crew per day. Infanrty and artillery worked well, cavalry took more than the day (and artilly as it turned out we could have done both sets in a day).

we do it this way to inspire each other through a project, as I am a notoriously slow and over detailed painter, so bro keeps me on my toes.

WW2 is plastic, but I am working on my 5mm armies as well. Naps is 1/72 soft plastic with some additional metal command figures.

There are, of course, the other distractions – the boys WH40k, LotR, Naps in 28mm, finishing my Naps in 18mm (just basing to finish off), a new found urge for Colonials (in plastic again).

I generally find that, after paying for the boys' GW stuff, my own hobby money is short, so plastics fit the bill. Not really sure why I would do metal these days though – I find them a bit too pricey and charicatured for my tastes, but never say never.

If you fancy an Imagi-Nations game in Billericay, Essex, then let me know.

Rustoleum. I got some of this from Homebase last week. Was in 2 stores and both had it on the shelf in many different colours including matt black.

Might find it difficult to get to Essex for a game Marc owing to the fact that I live in one of England's former colonies at the 'ends of the earth'- but I appreciate the offer.
Cheers
jacksarge

JS – that's a shame. But good luck with your GNW project. And when you are over on holiday bear that offer in mind :-)

Cheers Marc, our family is actually saving to go back to UK for a holiday, we lived over there for 7 years back in the 90's- down in the West Country.
Have nearly finished my first 24 man unit of English for the WSS- just got to varnish and base up. Need to ignore the piles of plastic vikings and napoleonics for a while- I seem to get distracted by different periods and scales- a pretty common complaint amongst wargamers I guess.
jacksarge.