"Muddy Waterloo" Topic

We are putting on a Waterloo game using Piquet Field of battle at the club this week and I was debating weather it would be worth restricting movement to about half(?) because of the mud…I know some historians think it was a major factor but on a gaming table how influential would it be on events…

It effected Napoleons artillery, which waited before firing for the ground to firm up.

If it affected when the battle began, it affected EVERYTHING: "Blucher or night."

But if the battle didn't begin until the ground dried, then it would seem it was NOT a factor that ought to be reflected on the tabletop.

Excellent thread title. I've got visions of duelling Telecasters.

Adkin's 'Waterloo Companion' might prove useful

Hi Connard--Yes I have it and have read it--I'm just wondering if it's worth including as to paraphrase Rod Steiger--"The mud is the same for everyone…True….TRUE"…

Dear James
The French guns could take position but not their ammunition caisson which were overlaiden with small front wheels unlike the British hence the tactical mobility of the RHA in particulare during the battle.

Remember that the French were totally reliant upon caisson and could not fight their guns without them unlike the RA and RHA. The Dutch-Belgiums had French equipment so were also hampered in much the same way.

Waterloo is a very difficult battle to balance as the French player tends to throw all his forces in at once. Co-ordination was poor and the Grande Battery was far less effective than the writers who remember WWI would relate. It denied ground.

The inaccountable lack of horse artillery support to the cavalry attacks has always caused me a surprise.

The ground was very poor at the start of the day. The land is clay and you will realise the problems that this causes.

The RHA artillery should be under its own commander Frazer which is an interesting manner of playing this. All the RHA batteries were taken away from the cavalry and used as a tactical reserve. The mobility of these should not be hindered.

You can restrict the firing of the French artillery by requiring them to move up caisson with each caisson being 1-2 moves of fire. Remember the Grand Battery fire between 100-200 rounds per gun. This is only 10-20 rounds per hour which is much less than we realise.

Certainly interesting. Visibility and other considerations were covered in my DDS (2007) Napoleonic Artillery, Crowood Press. Hopefully Adye (1813) Pocket Gunner reprint will be out to consult in a month or so. This is the Aide Memoir for British Artillery of the period.

You could always contact me offline if you wish.
link

Stephen

At least one Dutch batallion was ordered to advance to their position barefoot, since the leather soles of their boots couldn't get any traction on the slippery hillside.

And no, I know of no maker of barefoot Dutch infantry in any scale.

Dear Gungnir
That is certainly an interesting observation. Thank you.

Stephen

TMP link for various eyewitness reports of how the mud affected Allied cavalry, Prussian advance etc.

One of our members belives that the mud fatigue the sixth corp and as it move up slow it was used on the flank of the ist copr to counter the prussians. the fatigue would explain why the corp never tried to tie up the purissian asvance in the woods along the roads and gullies.

The French striped the Horse guns from most of the cav to use against Hougomont and the french right among the close roads and hedges.

the french guns that did go in with the cav batteried the allies centered.

Lord Ghee

I've walked the terrain many times, and the mud at Waterloo is certainly thick and orrible compared to some other fields Ive been on. Its a rich, thick, grey clay that sticks to your boots in very large clumps that dont come off easily.

Wellington's ridge is quite a bit sandier, even in the winter I've never known it to be anything like as muddy and claggy as the valley. All the water from the ridge must have drained very rapidly into the valley, of course, so that's where Id have a movement slowdown if I was to allow for it in a game. And especially the Bois de Paris.

However, the effects of the mud at Waterloo is a bit of a myth really, which came in when Napoleon was looking for excuses on St Helena. His army was late in deploying, as has been mentioned above. There wans't a lot for his Grand Battery to fire at anyway. Adkins shows just how few men were injured by it.

Ok, so mud had some effect on movement etc, but Nappy had fought in heat, mud, rain snow, the lot and it didnt affect his army effectiveness. He Didnt let it, wouldnt allow it to. The fact is that in 1815 he wasn't very good in the mornings during this campaign, possibly due to his medication, and he didn't manage the battle in a way that he would/did at, say, Eylau.

Parts of the field were also covered by tall (man height) Rye wheat. Having rained for hours, this would be wet, stopping flintlocks from firing properly as they brushed against the wet stalks; and the Rye gave a lack of visibility in the first hours of the battle. This, and the formation used, certainly slowed D'Erlon down in his attack.

Something else to consider if you are looking for movement factor variations.

Regards

Geoff

"At least one Dutch batallion was ordered to advance to their position barefoot, since the leather soles of their boots couldn't get any traction on the slippery hillside."

Hmmmm, I honsetly doubt that, since I have about 95% of all Netherlands accounts and no one mentions this. Must be one of those DB-myths….

I've just been reading excerpts from the meoirs of both infantry iófficers in d'Erlon's corps and cuirassier officers involved in the later charges. Independently of Napoleon looking for excuses, both groups describe how the muddy ground hindered their units' movements.
Also, from regular walks on the field as a Waterloo guide, I'd have to agree with Geoff above: it'd be very difficult to build or maintain impetus when crossing that valley after heavy rains…
That said, Field of Battle seems to have enough b***erance factors built into it, so it's perhaps not necessary to include an additional one.
- I realise after writing this that your game is probably over by now, so how did you decide to play it and how did it go?

1815Guy

"Wellington's ridge is quite a bit sandier, even in the winter I've never known it to be anything like as muddy and claggy as the valley"

My understanding is that it's the worst of both worlds in that even where the sandy/loam soil is there's clay subsoil so that as you say it drains on the Allied side but then flows to wards the French.

After rain the sandy/loam soil dries to a crust which foot falls easily sink into so even there it's not easy to walk on bare ground.

From what I've seen of the terrain, the matter of waiting for the ground to dry is pure hokum on Naps part, given the reported amount of rain over night and on the retreat/pursuit from Genappe.

It would have taken days to dry out, not a few hours.

If players and rules accounted for weather games would be very different. Many rules do, most players ignore such. Wonder how Eylau would have gone without snow?

Cheers,

The Bandit

"My understanding is that it's the worst of both worlds in that even where the sandy/loam soil is there's clay subsoil so that as you say it drains on the Allied side but then flows to wards the French."

Worst of both worlds? Well…..only if you are French! I think we Brits quite liked it that way!!! :o)

Waterloo cant be compared to the conditions at Eylau….. and Nappy did OK there in wintry conditions. So terrain alone wont be the decider of any such battle as this.

Finally, if rain it slowed up Napoleon on the morning of Waterloo, it must have been far worse for the Prussians coming in from Wavre that morning on those terrible roads, and struggling past the "pinch point" of Lasne. All the more credit to them for overcoming it all. Meanwhile Napoleon passed over the battle to a battlefield commander for the day (Ney), as was his custom later in these wars.

Musketier--Yes FoB does have enough to keep a player busy--No not played it yet--this weekend--I will post a battle report--Played Quatre Bras last wedesday and hammered the frogs!!!!(Although Brunswick did die AGAIN)

Did you increase the gradient up to the main ridge as per recent geomorphological research ;-)

- Allan

Yes Wellingtons ridge will be a type 2 obstacle--stop on reaching and half movement…

I remember a conversation here sometime ago with you Stephen were we talked about this and the mud. Something has always bothered me about this battle, so we have mud but we also have rye wheat as tall as the soldiers as claims go by eyewitnesses, so here is my point;

cannon should look like this when covered in mud and maybe
worse;
picture

but look at whats mixed in the mud in the picture rye, wheat or straw. Here is what the field probably looked like;

picture

and put that mix together and guess what you get;

picture

which you can use as cement to make this with;

picture

Now if the soldiers were covered in it how much weight did it add to hamper there movement and in battle they were probably covered in it. This is only speculation but seeing the condition of the field and the components I mention its logical that this could have played a big part in the battle.

Erwin – If this was the case as I described I could see them taking off those heavy sodden boots it just needs to be confirmed by an eyewitness account if possible.

Regards
James

General Brock – Two of the four links don't work

I just tested them and they are all working.

No they're not

Pic # 1 picture

Pic # 2 picture

Pic # 3 picture

Pc # 4 picture

In order let me know if they are working or not.

Pic 2 & 4 are working the other 2 aint… ;)

Pic # 1 picture

Pic # 3 picture

If it don't work this time don't know what to tell you.

Regards
James

A very sad study I worked on at university was the time it took mud to dry after a down pour. This was all part of my archaeology degree in an environmental module…anyway…
The results were quite fascinating. Clay dries fairly quickly but will remain more plyable than other muds. Generally after an hour of sunshine it will begin to harden. I think the bottom of the valley would have been wet for a few days but the rest of the battlefield, in the heat of June would have been fairly firm after a couple of hours of sunshine. Areas with continual traffic would have been harder to dry and would remain softer longer. I think at a bout 3pm the gound on a good portion of the battlefield would have been hard enough to allow normal movement for most arms. In the centre of the battlefield in the valley it would have been an obstacle all day.

hi Greenryth…Yes thats what i thought--not all over the field but in the valley it would stay quite muddy..
Played the first part of the battle today--the Frogs did well with their guns and tore a huge hole in the left--Sent in loads of infantry and cavalry--However we countered with our cavalry and an massed melee is now taking place--Hougomont has been ignored…
unfortunbately my opponent (Frog) cried when I mentioned making the valley type 2 as well so left it out THIS TIME!!