"Use of submarines without a referee/ umpire." Topic

When playing without a referee or umpire, how could submarine movement, observation and attacks be conducted on the game table?

Thanks,

Mike

I would just assign a fairly low percentage chance of the sub attacking a surface target and rolling for it each turn. If it makes the roll and attacks, then it would most likely high tail it and not be available for the rest of the battle. The chance of it being destroyed by the surface forces would be directly proportional to how many destroyers are within a certail distance of the sub when it attacks.

The best way I found is using the Avalon Hill game "Submarine" for movement etc. It translate very well to miniatures and table.

Use a 2 to 1 ratio of fake subs to real subs in the game. A positive find of a fake sub removes the miniature from the game. A positive contact reveals the sub. Always play with two real subs in the game so you don't have to remove all the fakes. Additionally when an ASW loses contact with a sub place two fake in the same hex one the sub's move impulse send the sub three different directions.

Terry

Mal Wright has a WW2 convoy game coming out from the Clash of Arms folks. I've done some playtests and it does a really good job using some abstractions in lieu of turn by turn precise hidden plotting or decoys/dummies.

Naval Thunder: Battleship Row has fully integrated submarine rules and does not require a referee.

Submarine movement and positioning are abstract, but the owner assigns targets and the defender has a chance of using ASW capable escorts to protect their own ships.

Battleship row is on target to be released in the next couple weeks.

You need to look at my integrated turn sequence in Watch Your Six!

You could use a system like that based on relative advantage and disadvantage using a number of dummy subs so the true location of the actual sub would never be revealed until . . . it is definitively revealed.

When the sub submerges, you could then go back to proliferating dummies.

mjc

In general I abstract the presence of submarines in predominantly surface actions. My reasoning is that the players are taking the roles of captains, admirals and commodores of the surface forces and as such have very little influence (if any) over the subsurface element.

Alright David – I'll agree that abstraction is probably the only way using a sub is gonna get done. So how do YOU abstract submarine actions.

David wrote:
In general I abstract the presence of submarines in predominantly surface actions. My reasoning is that the players are taking the roles of captains, admirals and commodores of the surface forces and as such have very little influence (if any) over the subsurface element.

When submerging, the sub commander(s) need to pre-plot their movements for X number of turns in advance, e.g. speed, course, depth, evasive maneuvers/tactics, firing torps, etc.

Surface vessels need to get within X range of a "real" sub in order to attack it with depth charges, hedgehog, or squid.

More DC's are needed to have a better chance of destroying/damaging the sub – say 1% chance per DC dropped. Patterns need to be pre-determined before dropping, and the number of DC's dropped as well, in addition to where they are dropped – attacks on dummy subs do no damage. Then roll for results, and don't forget to tick off the number remaining – supplies of DC's and other ASW weapons are limited.

Hedgehogs and Squid are a bit more deadly – forget the exact results, but around 15% – 28% for HH, and 33% – 67% for Squid and double Squid attacks, respectively.

Hunter-killer tactics of having another vessel trail the attacking ship will increase the percentage of success, since they can maintain contact with the enemy sub up until the last second, before the DC's go off, instead of losing contact at the last minute as the range closes with a single vessel (earlier sonar models).

The method used in Seastrike is very playable. Use markers for the sub with a number of dummies.

shipwreck has it nailed imo… try it for size…