"Right. Sell me the ECW." Topic

OK. So whats so good about ECW?

Why should I shell out for badly colour coordinated Napoleonics with dismountable dragoons, poor quality muskets, long pointy sticks and over enthuiastic cavalry?

/popcorn

15 shillings. Buyer collects

My simple answer. Awesome hats. At least that's why I bought an army. Really quite that simple.

Joey

Go read decent ECW books – you'll find them in a building called "a library".

I'm with the OP. I have seen lots of stuff about gaming the ECW, with no real reason as to why it would appeal to me. My library binges are already full of Napoleon in Egypt, Babylonians, the Indian Mutiny… so many periods of interest, so little time. But maybe the ECW is the Next Big Thing for me and mine, if only someone could tell us what makes it so cool in a nutshell :)

In no particular order:

- Great historical characters
- Colourful local commanders
- Colourful uniforms and flags (as colourful as you want them to be)
- A quick change of flags/command sets and your Parliamentarians can double as Royalists and vice versa
- Scots fought for each side at varying points in war.
- Private armies
- First national professional army
- Hundreds of local small scale battles and several dozen major battles.
- Hundreds of sieges – large and small.
- Local aspect for many Brits, Scots and Irish
- Well supported in all wargame scales.
- Excellent resource material available from Caliver Books.
- Pike and shot blocks look attractive on wargames table.
- Great fun for your own imagi-wars and imagi-regiments.
- Attractive tabletops.
- Early ECW troops can double as later Thirty Year War (in squint mode).
- Decent rule sets
- Declaring for Parliament or king Charles
- Three wars plus warfare in Scotland and Ireland
- Scots Civil War between Covenanters and Royalists
- Can be as big or small as you like.
- Regional armies, regional campaigns

Cheers
Mark

What's so good about the Napoleonic period? Did someone have to "sell" you on it? Frankly, no one should have to "sell" you on a period of history. If you don't understand the differences in tactics, weapons and forces between these two periods, you have some reading to do. Your comparisons do not pass muster.

My entry into the ECW was from watching an event put on by the Sealed Knot, the Battle of Dunbar, along with seeing my first Perry ECW figures. Either one might have done it, but both together on the same weekend was fatal.

Why would I want to sell you on ECW? Sell me on not collecting and painting for the last six months. Silly original post.

Read a book about it. If you're still not enthused about the period for wargaming, move on to something else.

It's about the history of a period, not the figures. If the history isn't interesting to me, I won't build an army for it.

So, if you do a lot of reading, and aren't inspired by ECW, move along. Nothing to see there.

The Dropship covers it admirably IMHO.

And as uniform & flag details are often unknown, no one can tell you that you're wrong!

I am waiting on the Fields of Glory based rules set before I buy my ECW and TYW armies.

I am really looking foward to giving this era a try. I have enjoined doing research on the armies and uniforms for over a decade already.

Because Algernon Sidney fought in it and he was probably the most influential writer on the development of ideas of freedom, individual liberties and the creation of democratic republics on 18th century political thinkers outside of Machiavelli.

This alone should give you all the reason you need to game the most interesting period in world history.

As an aside, I like it so much I do it in 2 scales.

I've got it in 10mm, 20mm and 25mm. I did sell my 6mm years ago.

Thanks,

John

Well, Dropship Horizon and Pictors Studio have both provided polite, well-reasoned replies. Enough so that I will be looking into as time allows.

Thank you.

Because you can have a commander named Rupert who brings a war poodle to battle.

and was when england was a republic?

Lets face it; it's the poodle. Where else in history will you be able to collect and paint up the Royalist's secret weapon? 234 hit points, multi attack dice, able to ignor terrain restrictions and morale rolls. I've painted mine up holding a sten gun.

and was when england was a republic?

England (capital 'E') has never been a republic. During the Interregnum it was a commonwealth. Cromwell was the de facto monarch, so you could probably describe it best as a regency.

Let's see:

- poor man's TYW, with smaller armies
- almost all of the material available is in English (though primary sources can sport interesting 17th century spelling)
- nutty religious movements of all sorts
- Montrose and his royalist Scots

Frilly lace collars. Most of us have always secretly wished to wear them and this is the next best thing. Oh, and the pointy little beards as well.

Lets face it; it's the poodle. Where else in history will you be able to collect and paint up the Royalist's secret weapon? 234 hit points, multi attack dice, able to ignor terrain restrictions and morale rolls. I've painted mine up holding a sten gun.

Sirrah, you overlook Lord Cadogan's dog in the WSS period which – although no pudel – was just as silly-looking, yet equally as devastating on the Field.

What other period can you field a unit with a flag with "Cuckolds we come" on it?

Almost as cool is the arm with sword hacking at an orange ball under the motto, "At all that is round."

It is definitely fun.

Things are vague enough where rivet/button/facing counting does not get in the way.

Yet there is enough reliable information to get going.

You have Pike, Shot, cannon, horse and dragoons (usually just a single or two units of dragoons) to play with rather than just foot, horse and guns. The Scots have lancers if you be wanting that.

Also do you start in Dutch or Swedish order?

You can have sieges, skirmishes or full on army meets army battles.

Early to mid war, you can mix/match painted units by swapping out standards (so your collection is more flexible, Scots and NMA are however a problem for that).

You can colour code regiments on the same side by their coats. Literally you can have a (Madder) Red, White and (indigo) blue army!

As others have said, Thirty Years War is reasonably do-able with the same collection (or the Bishops' Wars and the war in Ireland just before the English decided to have their own). There are also a few continental affairs you can use the troops for (generally anything upto the 1680's in northern/western Europe for late war troops).

History wise, a cast full of real fun characters, some a little quirky. Isn't Montrose listed as having a Captain Blackadder commanding a unit of horse?

Tommiatkins
If you are English,you should not have to ask!!!!!!!

Regards

Simply: don't do it; just stick to all those Napoleonics. Why waste all the money at men wielding long poles, muskets on shorter poles and a commander with a dog. And even two armies as big as a napoleonic division and of the same nationality also.
:-)

Simply put – it is still fought in the minds of many in these Isles.

This will always be my favorite. I have about a thousand 15mm essex boys. cool coat colors (colours) spiffy flags, lumbering cannon interspaced with a few "2-3 pound door knockers" YOu can name your great cannon (plural) after some of the regional professional ladies of some reputation. Like "sweetlips" or "squeeking Maggie". Pikes are my favorite weapon, The Civil Wars didnt have the horrific examples of Magdeburg or others to follow. All the information is in English, armies are small, beer was consumed in monumental quantities (is that relevant?) There is even an Eglish civil war display here in louisville Kentucky at the Frazier Armes Museum. (got some wonderful pieces from the Ryal armories.) and an original Pike. I real by god 16.5 footer. becides, the countryside is beautiful and I believe this conflict is one of the more important to our history here in the US. When this finally resolved and over, the immigration from the UK really started to pick up, especially when considering Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania….just my 2cents . Clay

OK Chaps. Thanks. I'm actually pretty sold by that. Especially to Dropship.

Another good reason is those 28mm plaggys!

And the Hats. They really are quite ridiculous. Not as bad as a Polish Hussars, but still wickedly mad!

Because you can be right but repulsive, or wrong but wromantic.

Sell you? Didn't you know the first one is free, we get you on the comeback.

Not that I play WHECW but if I did I'd field a full complement of "Buffoons".
Reason enough I'd say.
Having spent years building up 15mm forces for this I asked myself recently "is this really what you want?"
The answer was no..
…several hundred Foundry,Perry and TAG later I have the ECW troops I always wanted.
Main reason for this collection -blokes waving hats…

I don't need to be sold (it's been oddly attractive), but as long as someone brought it up, what's a good overview/intro book to the ECW. I could grab an osprey but I'm sure there's one, or a couple, of books that will have the basics (tactics, who, what, when, etc.) but also the extras that give you a bit more knowledge? The SYW is about the earliest I game (not counting dark age) so it'd be a brand new period. Thanks in advance.

My ECW reading began with "This War without an Enemy", by Richard Ollard. This is a good over-view of the conflicts, but focuses more on personalities and politics. It was helpful for this North American to get that set before focusing on the battles, weapons and tactics. I think that helped me reach a better understanding of the "why" before adding the "how". This was a short time after seeing the Sealed Knot display, and acquiring my first batch of Foundry figures. (already thoroughly hooked!)

don't need to be sold (it's been oddly attractive), but as long as someone brought it up, what's a good overview/intro book to the ECW. I could grab an osprey but I'm sure there's one, or a couple, of books that will have the basics (tactics, who, what, when, etc.)

…………. Get the Osprey Campaign book "Edgehill." It gives you the political background to the war, the basics on the armies and troops types and looks at some of the main characters. It is perfect for someone starting out with the ECW. If you are still interested after reading Edgehill, then there are a ton of books that can give you more depth on the subject. Also get Warhammer English Civil War. Nice book, pretty pictures and a good starting place to understanding the armies and how they fought.

Mike B

Griefbringer said…..though primary sources can sport interesting 17th century spelling… but not as wacky as the spelling in this thread…. ;o)

Don't forget nice straight forward tactics, same weapon systems on both sides, So in a game it comes down to tactical style and generalship.

BTW I have the pointy beard (it is cool) and have been known to wear a lacey collar (at least when the regimental preacher – think of him as a religous Commissar – isn't looking).

Now on to the next topic (official thread hijack follows)

SELL ME THE AMERICAN WAR OF INDEPENDANCE !!! :-)>

Okay, I'll "resurrect" this thread after a year.

As an American I knew virtually nothing about the ECW. I did know that there was an interregnum while Cromwell "usurped" the monarchy . . . but how and why? . . . I hadn't a clue.

I've been reading a number of histories of the ECW and am finding it very fascinating. The history leading up to the war and the characters involved are as convoluted as a soap opera.

I'd love to do this in 40mm with the Sash & Saber figures . . . but I can't afford them . . . *sigh* . . . so I'll probably opt for Old Glory (with the Army Deal).

-- Jeff

Jeff,

If you want to try it out, you can start inexpensively with Billy Bone's paper ECW minis. They are purchased as a zip file and you can print out whatever you need. It's what I'm doing for now. Nice artwork, too, with a sort of period sepia tone color and feel to them/

Personally, I like the period for all the color, the mix of pike and musket, but mostly for the colorful costuming. I'm not very up on the history of the period, but that will change over time.

When I finally set out to play, though, I plan on building up the armies with 54mm scale plastic minis.

TKindred,

I've not seen much in the way of variety in 54mm plastics . . . although I'm willing to be educated.

And since I now live on an island off of Canada's west coast there are no local outlets for anything. All figures (metal or plastic) need to be shipped in . . . and the ECW is not big on this side of the Pond (and I'm a long way from said Pond).

So, sir, what is available in 54mm plastic? (This might warrant starting a new thread).

-- Jeff

here is a start:

link

A friend of mine also expanded on these by adding 54mm plastics from other brands, especially the Pirate range for guns and clubmen, as well as the Jamestown Colony playset, though i can't remember off the top of my head which maker produced it. I'll post some more links when I locate them.

Jeff,

here's a link to my friend Scott's blog, with pix of some of his assorted 54mm plastics:

link

What he does is, after they are all assembled and cleaned, is to wash them in warm soapy water and let dry completely, then spray paint them with paint made for covering ABS plastic. That gives each unit the same color, as well as allow you to mix figures from other makers that might have a different color, etc.

Regardless, this is what I am planning for sometime this coming spring.

@Jeff

I'd love to do this in 40mm with the Sash & Saber figures . . . but I can't afford them . . . *sigh* . . . so I'll probably opt for Old Glory (with the Army Deal).

The OG ECW line is probably their best, and with the army deal one of the best bargains in 28mm wargaming.

@Tommiatkins

Why should I shell out for badly colour coordinated Napoleonics with dismountable dragoons, poor quality muskets, long pointy sticks and over enthuiastic cavalry?

It's funny how what seems to be a weakness of this period to some, for me is part of the ECW's allure.

I live in a former British colony, thankfully now governed by a Parliamentary Democracy. We owe much of that to the ECW. That is why my first allegiance is to the Parliamentarian side. (The Puritans are another matter entirely.)

Ralph

Because Buchan wrote a biography of Montrose (I'm reading it now), who was even cooler than Richard Hannay.

What sold me on the ECW – was a trip to England and visits to battlefields.

The absolute BEST book for me on the military aspect of the ECW is "All the King's Armies" by Stuart Reid: link

There's an interesting tactical feel to Horse/Pike/shot that is not there in other periods. Guns are around but only occasionally useful. Nothing dominates the field entirely, altho the shot has the edge it's not much.

It also has a "small" feel to it that is good for gaming – almost any scale rules can be used.

Finally, lots and lots of good info in English.