"Dealing with Deviancy" Topic

Hi all

I play a couple games in which templates deviate from the selected target point by a distance rolled on a dice in a random direction.

As a kid we used to use d12 and go in a clock direction. It was nice, but fiddly.

We tried cardboard spinners. It made us feel like we should be playing twister, and they were too big to get close to the target area.

Then Dice with arrows on were invented. They are what I use now.

The problem is, you roll the dice then move it in the direction indicated by the arrow. But everyone does that differently.

Some people move the template in the direction the dice indicates as if it was a triangulation, some by the ANGLE indicated – lining their tape measure up with the arrow then moving across the table till they reach the template. Oddly, this often slurs, shifts, drags in a way beneficial to the player.

Some players do it one way sometimes, other ways the other, in the same bloody game.

In a perfect world you should roll the dice as close to the target point as possible. sometimes that's not possible. Sometimes it is, but the roller 'forgets'.

After a game where every artillery deviation roll my opponent made was favourably interpreted to pound as many of my guys as possible (except one, where having felt ashamed of an stunning run of luck that destroyed my entire centre he decided to twist the direction in my favour, making me feel even MORE lousy) I am in search of something better.

Does anyone know where you can buy really small spinners? One that would fit plumb centre on a template perhaps?

Pat

try em4

I have an em-4 one, and it works quite well. If I was really anal I would find a way to make an elevated mounting

I've seen elevated templates. Somebody makes 'em. I just can't remember who it is. They are out there.

Oddly, this often slurs, shifts, drags in a way beneficial to the player.

That drives me mental! It's one of my biggest peeves in gaming, because it's such an obvious cheat but for some reason it's one that loads of people seem to feel they can get away with.

That spinner idea is a good tip, I think I'll look into that, if only for the sake of my blood pressure.

Throw the die at the target.

The distance and direction of shot deviation from the target are the same as the distance and direction of the place where the die falls. Or, to put it another way, the shot lands where the die lands.

You can disregard the symbol showing on the face of the die, but I would recommend using a custom die with all six faces showing an explosion symbol and the word "BANG!"

All the best,

John.

While an elevated spinner seems like the more "elegant" solution (not forgetting that the next issue is where the feet get placed, and that a "ground zero" point still requires a marker to be centered above), this is the somewhat fiddly--but sure--method I've used in many game systems.

The firing player indicate his exact aiming point, placing a die, penny, etc, on the spot. Then, four D6 are rolled (not at or around the troops), ideally of four colors (say, white, black, green, and red, all commonly available).

White is read Even=Right of the targt, Odd=Left, while black is the number of inches (centimeters, half-inches, etc, as best fits your game scale). Then, the green die is read Even=Long, and Odd=short, with the red die indicates the number of inches over or under the target. Once the fall of shot has been spotted, the original marker can be moved there to gauge effects.

Use of "burst circles" or other templates for areas affected by a shot can just be laid over the marker, and you can get on with it.

This mechanic can also be simply modified to represent differences between rifled and smoothbore guns (for Colonial or other 19th Century games) by subtracting one or two inches from the "Drift Dice," making direct hits and near misses more common.

Indeed, it is possible to substitute D8's or even D10's to get a wider range of results representing inferior ordnance, poorly trained gun crew, bad powder, etc.

In a perfect (or almost so!) gaming environment, the "elevated direction spinner" (which shows direction of drift, but would have to be modified to show distance), would also present a variety of "burts circles" (for differet weight of shot) so that once it had been spotted, the number of figures that might be affected would be indicated in the same effort.

Of course, again, Spinners are notorious for giving results "on the line" that must still be interpreted, too.

At least with this "4 Dice" Mechanic you get a unambiguous result with one pitch of dice, and use of a short measuring stick or ruler.

So, give it a shot (so to speak),

TVAG

"Dealing with Deviancy"

I was trying to work out what dice had to do with deviancy (as in that practised by deviants a la Bladerunner etc.) when I realised you were actually talking about deviation!!

Get a shot glass. Dice are rolled by shaking the shot glass and then slapping it down (not too hard) on the table near where the shot is landing.

When someone forgets, that roll is discounted and must be rolled again.

Also, before the game, describe the method used to figure deviation.

A spinner is going to create the same problems.

Ultra Ork, the elevated templates are made by Litko

Roll arrow die near target. Determine deviation (whatever method). Place template over target, then move it *parallel* to the arrow pointer the amount of deviation.

Ya know, I don't much care about this subject.

If they want to fudge, I let them. I win enough as it is and frankly I don't think I have ever lost a game solely because of this stuff. You just have to avoid concentrating your troops.

mjc

Another simple way: mark your blast template evenly around its edge, 1 – 12. (Or 10, or 8, or 20, or 100. Whatever works for you.) Place template, roll appropriate dice, the number rolled matches the number on the template that determines the direction of deviation.

Litko's elevated templates would work great for this, you just need to mark them appropriately.

If they want to fudge, I let them. I win enough as it is and frankly I don't think I have ever lost a game solely because of this stuff.

I could win every single game I played against someone who fudges deviations and I wouldn't feel any better about it. It's not about winning or losing, I just don't enjoy playing against cheats. It angers me, because they're wasting my time by pretending to play a game when all they're interested in is using devious means to try to ensure victory. If it means so much to them, fine, I'll concede the game to them and find another opponent who actually wants to play by the rules.

Here's another couple of options.

1. War of the Ring uses a table to roll on for artillery type weapons. A poor roll means either a miss, a miss and injury to crew/nearby friendlies or a hit or a spectacular hit on the unit were firing at.

2. Firing player elects target point where he wants round to land. Target players elects an alternative point anywhere within x inches from the firing players point. Roll off and whoever got the higher roll gets to choose their target point.

The Ganesha method is:
player points the exact spot where he wants the shot to land. Makes relevant die roll (generally a Quality test on as amny dice as range increments are needed to go from firer to target spot); if he makes the roll, the shot lands there. If he fails the roll, the opponent gets to decide where the shot lands (within a certain distance determined by the amount the roll was failed by). Never an argument!

ganeshagames.blogspot.com

Just drop a one pence coin sized piece of paper from a specified height above the table. Different heights for different deviation – experiment.
We used this method for ww2 parachute landings. After trying to roll randomly for each parachutist, we just made confetti and marked each oiece with any special troopers, such as officers etc, and dropped a handfull over the table. Got some good fun results: "I'm pinned down on the roof of gestapo HQ" "Noooo, not down the factory chimney".

We use a 2 stage system: One ranging shot per available gun is fired at the start of the turn. A burst marker is placed near the target; 2 d6's and a scatter die are thrown and the marker moved accordingly.

At the end of the turn, a barrage lands: ONE of the ranging shot markers is chosen (must be visible to the observer, and the remainder are discarded) and a single d6 and scatter die rolled.

The marker is moved and the barrage template (four burst circles) is placed over the marker. The template has an x to mark the center of the barrage zone, and it is this that is placed on the marker. The long edge is always oriented toward the shooter's base line or gun position, unless the player states beforehand that he wants a linear spread i.e. with the template's short edge facing the base line.

The 2 step system permits targets being bracketed to move out of (or into!) danger and allows the possibility of friendly fire.

We've been doing this more than three years now – it works!

Spinner.
Replace the plastic arrow with a laser pointer.
set up a ruler marked swing arm with a slideable marker on it.

Set the entire thing on an elevated base.

Slide the marker to the correct distance. Spin the pointer. Rotate the arm around. At the point the laser illuminates the marker, you have your target point.

I don't see the problem. The player aims at one point on the table, and deviation is done from this point, following the (as exact as possible) angle indicated by the arrow on the die, and the shot falls a distance (in cm or inches or whatever according to rules) indicated by a numeral die.

But something else is wrong (I've served my compulsory Military Service in the Artillery): in real life, deviation in length (from the gun) is often bigger than deviation on sides. Even with an oval template, it does not simulate deviation well.

I don't see the problem.

Neither do I. Whenever we need to do this we throw 2 die. One with the direction arrow and one with the numbers. The template is then moved the numbers distance in the arrow direction from the intended target point. The template is kept in the same orientation as if it had landed on the intended target point. Ideally the arrow dice would land close to the target in order to make the deviation direction easier to see.

Some people move the template in the direction the dice indicates as if it was a triangulation, some by the ANGLE indicated – lining their tape measure up with the arrow then moving across the table till they reach the template. Oddly, this often slurs, shifts, drags in a way beneficial to the player.

I may be simple, but I don't understand the bit about triangulation. I know what triangulation is but I don't see how it relates to this. I think I understand the ANGLE method, but I don't see how it can be abused to benefit the firer. Perhaps you could elaborate for me? Thanks.

Don't play with deviants.