"1644 - victory conditions?" Topic

My copy of the 1644 rules from Foundry arrived yesterday and I like the look of them – nice and simple, just like me.

I didn't get a chance to read from cover to cover yet but I can't seem to find out who wins? Did I miss the bit on victory conditions ?

There were winners in ECW?

There was certainly a loser – Charles I! You can't do much worse than losing your kingdom AND your head!

Short term winners: Parliament and Oliver Cromwell

Long term winners: Britain – ECW showed we didn't have to suffer a despotic king, Restoration gave us back a monarchy, but a more circumspect one and Glorious Revolution gave us a constitutional monarchy, and got rid of those duplicitous Stuarts!

The results of a battle are usually self-evident.
If you can't figure out who won a wargame, then it's a draw.

You're playing 1644, no one wins.

Joking.

Maybe I should have asked the question a bit betterer

When do we stop playing ?

When half are dead or routed
When every last man has fled the field or is dead
or when the beer has run out ?

When we used to play we stopped when it seemed obvious one side had won. Sometimes we just went for broke and played till one side was all wiped out.

It just depended on how it went and how much time we had.

If one side got pounded all game then we might just call it when their infantry was engaged and the cavalry was coming around behind them.

In other circumstances, if there was more back and forth, we might force them to charge in and kill the infantry.

Always wondered why they're called 1644?

That is how many figs you need to play the game.

Hey Pictors. I assume you have issues with 1644? just curious what your thoughts are on them?

Thanks,

John

I don't really. I was completely joking about the comment about it being everyone losing.

The game isn't exactly my thing as it doesn't seem to be complete in some ways but only if you run into certain situations and that is a case with most wargames honestly.

There are a lot of things I like about it. The predictability of results was nice, so you know if you attack you are going to get x casualties at least, it was one way to use a limited number of dice and not have luck be a huge factor.

I do like rolling a lot of dice vs. a small number because you get better averages but if a simple chart, like this game has, does that anyway then I'm cool with just a single die roll.

For example, in this you roll a die that determines if you kill 2 guys in stead of 1 or 4 instead of 3. It isn't like you roll a 1 on a d6 and you kill no one and you roll a 6 and a crater the size of a small castle is now on the table where the target once was.

Oh and I didn't quit playing them because I didn't like them, I quit playing them because Warmaster was released and I thought that worked a lot better for English civil war so I got rid of all my 28mm stuff and got 10mm stuff. I'll probably go buy some more 28mm stuff now that it is in plastic though.

So maybe I'll pick up the new foundry version. I gave my old copy to someone and he sold it.

"… I got rid of all my 28mm stuff and got 10mm stuff."

……….. Oh you poor deranged soul.

I loved the original "1644" if for nothing else, all the Perry's illistrations. My favorite was the the small black and white drawing of some poor souls routing and one guy running smack into a tree. The rules inspired me to start buying the Foundry ECW line way back when you could afford them. :)

We had a lot of trouble playing the rules in the old days. A lot of things (such as clipping of units) were happening without any reference within the rules on how to resolve these issues. So we eventually gave up on them and the dust began to gather on the ECW armies. The release of WECW generated a huge renewal of the ECW arms race. I do have the new release of "1644" and I know a few people that play it.

"1644" is a game best played in the "old-style" … simply for the enjoyment of the models and the game. Winning and loosing are secondary.

Mike B

I didn't get a chance to read from cover to cover yet but I can't seem to find out who wins?

The authors, publisher's and distibutor's as new editions, army lists and supplements are released. True of many sets of rules, as Mr. Barker proved so effectively for many years.

;-) All in good fun, I don't think anyone ever made enough off a set of rules, or the accompanying paraphenalia, to retire from it.

Bill

Thanks for all the replies.

To be honest I am probably looking for a set of rules that help me have an excuse to collect an ECW army and then get them out and push them around.

I have yet to find a set of rules that I can say 'that's it, just what I am after"

You should play MoA ECW variant. Works the first time, isn't single figure based and one can actually SEE who is winning at the end of the game. One side either keeps or quits the field quite literally!
Steve Miller
DFWIrregulars

Rob
On Friday night, 8 of us had a great ECW game. It took a little over 2 hours to play – we had a clear winner – a it looked great. I used the Command & Colors Ancients rules (boardgame) and simply added some ECW chrome. The C&C system is pretty solid – has enough detail to keep the grognards from totally rebelling – and is fun. At the end of the game, even the grognards were willing to admit that the game felt right. And…since it finished fast – we had plenty to time to retire to the deck and discuss everything.
I hexed out my table with 6" hexes (pretty easy to do with a permanent marker). My units are all Foundry ECW which I bought years ago when they retired the range and sold off figs for $.50 USD each (!) I can fit about 27 foot in 3 ranks on each hex. I made up trays / sabots for the unit so they are easy to move. I have a lot of painted casualty figures – so we use those to mark the hits. So far this is exactly what I need. An easy game which gives me an excuse to push a lot of ECW lead around. Though now I'm waiting for the Warlord plastic cav. so I can really beef up my Horse.
BC

Pictor's wrote:
There are a lot of things I like about it. The predictability of results was nice, so you know if you attack you are going to get x casualties at least, it was one way to use a limited number of dice and not have luck be a huge factor.
--------------
This was the thing we disliked most about the rules – you could pretty much precalculate combat results.
Real combats just were not that predictable.

Still, just shows than one man's game breaker is another's great feature.

BC, so what exactly did you do with the C&C rules? We've been thinking about trying C&C with ECW.

Simon

Hi Simon:
I pretty much used the rules as written (you can find them on the GMT webite). I tinkered with the troop types for period flavor. I looked on the web to see how others had modified the rules to account for pikes and incorporated the idea of simultaneous battleback for pikes attacked frontally. I'm snipping in my notes – but they may be too compacted to read properly. I have no doubt that you can customize the CCA rules to your tastes. I was gratified that the group enjoyed the game so much -and that all agreed it had a good ebb and flow.

BC

UNIT MOVE DICE & RANGE Hit on Shield? BATTLEBACK SUPPORT? Notes
Heavy CAVALRY 3 & 4\1 Y N Y Pursuit
CUIRRASIERS 2 5\1 Y Y Y

DISMOUNTED Dragoons 1 2\2\1 2\1\1 N N N Ignore "Stop" Terrain
2 & N N N
Pike/Shot Infantry** 1 & 4\3\2 Y Y Y Ranged fire-1 if moved. Simultaneous BB vs. Cav. * Ignore 1 Shield. Ignore 1 flag vs. Cav. From front.
2 & 0 Y
Forlorn Hope or Commanded Shot 1 & 2\2\1 N N N Ignore "Stop" Terrain

2 & 2\1\1 N N
Shot Infantry 1 & 3\2\2 Y N Y
2 & 2\1\1 N Y
Artillery 0 & 3\3\2\2\1\1 Yes, plus on Diamond at short rng. Y
ARTILLERY 50%* & 0
ARTILLERY + 1 die if deployed on hilltop
ON HILLTOP
LEADER 3 & + 1 die when commanding Y
(not with artillery)

for the chap looking for rules, I'd recommend Regiment of Foote by peter pig. they are a helluva lot of fun, and not mired in rules and trivia, and very flavorful. We really like the activiation system, it definitely makes a difference in play and helps reduce the "god-like gamer" aspect. Plus there's some real hilarity in having a regiment wander off during the campaign system because they are hunting for witches! If you don't find that amusing, of course you can not use teh campaign system. :)

Highly recommended.