"Convince me to do a Samurai battle" Topic

Ok, so far ALL the periods I do hare gun based, mostly muskets but aslo more modern weapons.

I'm now thinking of doing a Feudal japan battle.
i would like to to be based on a real battle, but I'm not sure how well documented those were so it might be better to just go with two generic amries.

I have been looking at the Campaigns of the Takeda,
They seem intresting as the battles often are quite small, which mean I can get close to 1:1 with 6mm baccus figs

Mabye 1:4-1:2 depending on the size, I'm thinking 2000-2500 figs.
I Realy want that rock, pappers siccors feel, were you have to use the archers, mele infanty and cav right to win the battle.

So can any of you tempt me to do a non gunpowder battle.
I think I'm going to need some convincing as I do love my guns

Samurai battles were quite large, so if you want to do 1:1, 6mm is probably your best bet. At the battles of Kawanakajima, you're looking at 30,000 on both sides, with casualties in the 3000-4000 range. Personally, I don't have a problem with representation of battles in larger scales and I prefer the detail of 28mm.

We know a lot about the battles of the Sengoku Jidai as they kept good records, but much less about other battles in Asia during the same period. If you do Takeda Shingen, you're looking at 1550's to 1570's which is just after Portugal's introduction of the arquebusier to the region. Should be fun.

Doing Samurai battle is a Zen thing. It's not something that you have to be convinced to do, it's something in your heart that you know is the right thing to do.

From reading about the battles of the Takeda campaigns alot of the battles were around 10 000 for both sides combined.

Lots of 3000-5000 strong armies

very pretty figures,

but i suppose that applies to all periods of samurai

regards

jim

Here's some inspiration (albeit in 28mm):

link

Beautiful figures, NYC, even with the lighting issues. I am humbled :)

link

Get it. Watch it. Be Inspired.

Why don't you just get a few figures to skirmish with…

Heh Heh

Yeah, Samurai Sengoku Jidai is a great period to game. I do it in 1/72 scale. I have 500 figures already done. Need to complete some more cavalry. Just got a big box of figs from a gent here at TMP to work on. Monks, Peasants, Samurai and lots of Ashigaru. During this era, battles of 10,000 are more like skirmishes. Battles are actually pretty large. You're probably looking at scales of at least 1:10 or 1:20.

Great fun.

Thanks,

John

You play what your heart is drawn to. If you need convincing then you have no staying power….

Well as I said I realy want that rock, papper, siccors feel to it.

With the right rules I could do Nagashino in 1:10

It woild look extremely cool with 5300 colorfull soldiers.
But the rules would have to be right, with short ranges both for movment and fireing, so I can get the most out of my modest table

Doug: For once we are in complete agreement. TIG

You want to put 5,300 minis on a "modest table"?? Shoulder to shoulder, wall to wall would look, impressive, but what kind of game would that be?…

"You play what your heart is drawn to. If you need convincing then you have no staying power…."

This is especially true painting samurai. I can't tell you how many people I've heard say, "I bought these to start a samurai army, but I started painting them and…"

They are a pain in the ass to paint.

After doing ACW for years, I just started doing samurai last fall. The challenge is, they all don't look the same. In fact they all look different. I don't think I sit at the table and do 100 figures dressed exactly the same way. (I'm thinking napoleonics here). Samurai give you a lot of freedom in colors,and, you don't have to buy the "correct" colors for the uniforms.

"You want to put 5,300 minis on a "modest table"?? Shoulder to shoulder, wall to wall would look, impressive, but what kind of game would that be?…"

If I had them shoulder to shoulder I would have room for 102 000 6mm figures.

I think as long as the movement distances are shot(like 5-10cm) then I could easly field any force smaller then 6000

I'm planing on having about 4500 Napoleonic figs for my Möckern/leipzig project. No problem I can have sevral divisons all deployed in line and still have gaps for units to move though.

They are a pain in the ass to paint.

Not in 6mm as much.
My favorite reason for my Samurai army; lots of longbow men.

Note that Brian Bradford has started to list his last box or so of Killer Katanas 2 rules on eBay, and at a discount…

"My favorite reason for my Samurai army; lots of longbow men."

That would make yours a Hieian or Kamakura Period Army, as the bow fell out of favor to the yari as the Kamakura bakufu fell apart, and the Sengoku Jidai got rolling… very colourful, those early bow-heavy samurai armies…

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

P.S. For those contemplating this period, remember that the samurai of the 16th century also fought the Choson Koreans, Jurchen, and the Ming Chinese during the Imjin War (1592-98)…

NYC what rules do you use for
those beautiful figs?

They haven't seen any action yet, but I'm developing my own. I hope to do a demo game at Fall In, but it's looking more likely not to be ready until Cold Wars.

ANy hints NYC?
I just got my first batch of 25mm ready to paint!

I'm thinking of doing the 4th battle of Kawanakajima

If I do it at 1:10 scale that means 3300 figs,
Are there any OOBs for this battle?

"ANy hints NYC?"

My painting technique? I paint flesh first, and then divide the unit into two. One half gets black armor, the other red. I then paint all the straps a cream color and any other bits that are in the red/brown hue, including wood on weapons, sashes, handles, etc. Then I do a brown wash. Highlight the flesh, red armor, etc. Drybrush the black armor with a dark gray color. When all is done, I paint the silks, no more than two the same color in any given unit. This gives them the appearance that each one looks different, as in real life. Finally, I do any detail work, such as the yellow sun on the hats. Base work – then done.

That's as assembly line as I get. The samurai take me about twice as long as a medieval miniature. My colonial Brits take almost as long. I would imagine Nappies would be similar, but I haven't taken that plunge yet.

If you plan to do the 4th Battle of Kawanakajima as far as i know the Takeda had 20,000 troops while the Uesugi brought 18,000 troops.

Losses for that battle were Takeda-4,000 and Uesugi-3,000.

Captain Gideon

4th battle of Kawanakajim was probably closer to

Takeda 18,000
Uesugi 14,000

Losses are estimated roughly at 70% of the Uesugi army and 60% of the Takeda army.

For me personally, I find the best scale to represent large battles is between 1:10 to 1:50. I do this using Terry Gores "Medieval Warfare" rules.

YouTube link

According to the Osprey Kawanakajima Campaign book by Stephen Turnbull,the Takeda did indeed have 20,000 while the Uesugi had 13,000 so i was somewhat high for the Uesugi.

Turnbull also says that the losses were 72% of the Uesugi army and 62% of the Takeda army.

Captain Gideon

"For me personally, I find the best scale to represent large battles is between 1:10 to 1:50."

That's big!

I think the best reason to do Samurai – or Landknechts for that matter – is that with so much colour aailable in your figures you have to get a decent palette of colours.

And that will stand you in good stead for the rest of your painting career.

Its the best way I know of to break out of the 1 red, 1 blue, 1 green, and loads of drab and camoflague palettes of most worgammers.