"English Flank batallions ?" Topic

Hi again,

Victrix propose a box for English Infantry – Flank comapnies – that includes command, flags and drummers. That means you are intended to build a batallion with flank companies only.

Am I missing something and does this really makes sense historically ?

"Victrix propose a box for English Infantry – Flank comapnies – that includes command, flags and drummers."

An English battalion had 8 "centre" companies and 2 "flank" companies. The left flank company was the light company and the right flank company were grenadiers.

"That means you are intended to build a batallion with flank companies only."

Er … no, see below.

"Am I missing something and does this really makes sense historically ?"

Yes, you are missing something and no it doesn't make sense historically.

It, of course, depends on your figure scale. For example, if you represent an English battalion with 40 figures, then each company will have 4 figures, so a light company of 4 figures on the left and a grenadier company of 4 figures on the right.

You need to bear in mind that each company would have command and drummer figures, although the light company would also have had a bugler, I think. I'm not so sure about the flags. A battalion normally had two, a King's colour and a regimental colour.

For a large skirmish game (with rules such as Sharpe Practice) you might just want a light company on the table, at 1:1 that could be as many as 80 figures. So the Victrix flank companies are ideal for that. Otherwise with 40 figures battalions (or less), one box of Flank Company figures will give you enough for several battalions.

I think Victrix simply wanted to supply enough figures to cover all the possibilities and plastic being so cheap this is reasonably easy to do.

Mike beat me to it.

If these figures are in the pre1812 stovepipe shako you could also use them for Light Infantry Battalions, such as the 43rd and 52nd.

Mike and all,

Thanks fot clarifying.

I was aware (but not so sure) that a british batallion was 8 centre companies and 2 flank companies at full theorical effectif.

I was not understanding this Victrix offer, especially as it includes flags and commands. Now, from the skirmish rules standpoint I better understand.

I will use this box to complete my batallions with flank companies. Were there colour distinctives between grenadiers and light companies ?

About the flags bearer and command I still interogate myself as flags bearer had no "strap shoulders" (?) things. I will know anyway as soon I will have the box in hand. Also, there should be the regimetal flag, then the king colours once per batallion. Was each batallion of a regiment issued with those colours ? How much batallion was staffed per regiment ?

You are right, plastic is not that much expensive, and yet another time I say a *HUGE* thanks to Victrix and Perry to give an oportunity to build a 28mm army at reasonable cost, especially at the quality level they provide.

Light Infantry regiments would have flags; most did not take them into action, but a few did. "Flank battalions" would not have had colours as they were drawn from several regiments. In Line Infantry regiments, the ensigns who carried the colours were drawn from the centre companies.

Most bdes in the Peninsular grouped their lt coys into ad hoc bns. Combined with the attached Rifles coys (95th or 60th) this gave the thick skirmish lines so memorable of British tactics. Memoires include officers reporting that they commanded or were adjutants of such semi-permanent bns. This means you can use your Victrix Flank Coy figures to build such a unit. You would have to use some lt inf heads as most lt coys used bugle horn badges on their shakos and the drummers would be replaced by buglers (there is a Victrix set that allows for this). This means that the standard bearers and drummers are redundant, but I am sure that they can be found service elsewhere.

Wow… Thanks again for the comments.

I also plan ordering an highanders flank companies box as well.

Is it historically reasonnable to think about building light batallions from highlander flank companies as well ?

As I recall, only the 42nd, 79th and 92nd Highlanders served in the Peninsula, all kilted. I do not know of any other kilted regiments. That would allow for 3 lights and 3 grenadier companies only.

But is sounds like a capital "fantasy" idea!

All three were at Waterloo, if my aged mind remembers correctly.

GdeP

Colour distinctions.

Grenadier company had a all-white shako plume, light company all green.

Similarly I think the shoulder tufts for the grenadiers were white and green for the light company.

That's it.

Hi again,

Garde de Paris : Thanks for the Higlanders info. I think I will build a regular batallion (centre + flanks), and with the remaining from flank box, either some fantasy… or more reasonably (???) ordering more center comp. boxes… later …

Bangorstu : Very nice info. I thought all flank comapnies had a white plume vs. center red/white ones. With such distinctive I will have no excuse on who goes on which side of the line when deployed ;-) …

Thank again to all,
An English troops newby,

Bruno.

Just one thing, before you whip out the paintbrushes. Flank companies, both light and grenadier, had white shoulder tufts.

This site may be useful, for post 1812 unforms at least, and it's in French :)

link

The uniform plates show centre, light, and grenadier companies

Hey Mister "sage",

Just checked 28th rgt. plates.
Nice info.
Have a good day (or evening here… or both…)

As long as the cuff, collar and turnbacks of the line/light ect match why not use the spare colour and command figures to make up 2 sets for different battalion/regiments etc. One set of figs does 2 batts for putting on the field. Perry peninsular heads do well for light – 28th. no need for super gluing the victrix white metal heads.

Hey Mister "sage",

Just checked 28th rgt. plates.
Nice info.
Have a good day (or evening here… or both…)

Merci Monsieur. It's evening here too, I'm in the UK.

We'll be in Paris at the end of September. If you would be so kind as to nag the curators at la Musee de l'Armee to get the 1er Empire section open I'd be most grateful :)

You can call me Connard, everybody does

(1) I have a question about the illustation of the 28th Foot, above. I thought that by Waterloo all regimental drummers wore red coats, with the collars and cuffs in the regimental colors. The drummer of the 28th is shown in a yellow coat – correct for the earlier Peninsular War period.

(2) Also, I understand that the 28th may have all carried French back packs since their back-to-back defense against French infantry and cavalry in Egypt, 1800a(?)and that the flank companies may still have had French packs at Waterloo. Does anyone know if these factors are correct?

I converted 20 Willies 30mm Austrian infantry in double-billed shakos to the 28th by filing the shako to the stovepipe, re-shaping the oak leaves to a front hackle, cutting straps off the ovoid water flask, and reducing the short sword to a bayonet scabbard only. The packs look French enough, and the animation of that figure makes a fine looking unit at the attack. It is, IMHO, Willies' best infantry figure!

(3) Finally, wasn't there something unusual about the company feathers of the 42nd Black Watch? Some part of each company feather in red?

GdeP

We'll be in Paris at the end of September. If you would be so kind as to nag the curators at la Musee de l'Armee to get the 1er Empire section open I'd be most grateful :)

Yeah, I know. Last time I went there it was by beginning may, and it was still closed. It was planned for reopening by May 16th. What scares me is that they made a thematic "from Louis XIV to Napoleon" and say covering up to 1814, so I am not sure it will contain as much as before… The second part of the aisle "… from Napoleon to Napoleon III" will open later this year. Take care that the part that is opened is closed any monday…

You can call me Connard, everybody does

Well… I'm affraid I cannot do that easily because I would feel like insulting you on each post…

>You are right, plastic is not that much expensive, and yet another time I say a *HUGE* thanks to Victrix
>and Perry to give an oportunity to build a 28mm army at reasonable cost, especially at the quality level they provide.

Absolutely! This is fantastic for people who otherwise could not afford big armies. Welcome to the 28mm Napoleonic club.

Neil
reinforcementsbypost.com (painting service)

Yeah, I know. Last time I went there it was by beginning may, and it was still closed. It was planned for reopening by May 16th. What scares me is that they made a thematic "from Louis XIV to Napoleon" and say covering up to 1814, so I am not sure it will contain as much as before… The second part of the aisle "… from Napoleon to Napoleon III" will open later this year. Take care that the part that is opened is closed any monday…

I've about given up. We usually visit Paris every year and it's been closed since around 2003-4, I think.

Well… I'm affraid I cannot do that easily because I would feel like insulting you on each post…

Essaie de le faire Monsieur, you'll feel much better :)

<<(3) Finally, wasn't there something unusual about the company feathers of the 42nd Black Watch? Some part of each company feather in red?>>

Grenadier company – red over white
Light company – red over green
Centre companies – all red
Band – red over yellow

Thanks, Super-Max! I must save that info.

GdeP

G de P,

A book by C E Franklin (British Napoleonic Uniforms) lists the above plume colour scheme; the red part of the mixed plumes was about 1/4 of the overall height of the item. He says that the drummers had red/yellow as well; he may be right, but I would have thought they would have matched the plumes of their companies. Maybe the drum major had the red/yellow and this has led to confusion?

Hello, Max:

Does the Franklin book mention anything about the 28th? This site caused me to dig out my old Staffens and Willies a couple months ago, and I have been completing some French units. I would like to take my 20 Willies of the 28th to 40 figures, representing 1 figure to 20 men, and would like to have all of them with the "French"(Austrian hide)back pack.

I also painted 20 Willies highlanders as the 79th Camerons, and am toying with a composite battalion of 20 Camerons, plus 20 of the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch. I do not base my figures in 4's or 6's, and can "split" units in half to represent 1:40. Staddens and Willies are still available, and it would be fun to do a drummer and piper from each regiment, a color officer, and a sergeant. As a unit of 40, it would have two regimental colors and no King's color.

And does the book mention what the color was of regimental drummer coats? Were they all red by the time of Waterloo?

GdeP

GdeP,

I have to confess that I can't answer any of those questions as the book didn't belong to me and I had to give it back (I'd actually borrowed it to check a few things and the Black Watch stuff was one of them). Sorry about that – I'm sure someone can help with the 28th (IMO there would have been few such packs left as they were "acquired" at Alexandria in 1801).

On the subject of the 79th, a recent thread on here revealed that it had a second light company drawn from the best shots of the battalion companies. This was a Peninsula thing that carried over to the Waterloo campaign.

The 28th is about the 28th unit on myh "to do" list, so I have time! But at 72, do I?!

I had toyed with doing another 20, but from another regiment that served with the 28th in Spain, with yellow facing. It would require using epoxy on the back pack to convert it to "British."

The 42nd and th 79th served together in Spain. These 40-figure units at 1:20 could be used as 20 each for 1:40. All my French at 36 are meant to serve at 2 of 18, or three of 12 each.

GdeP