| Lord Hill | 28 Jul 2009 12:23 p.m. PST |
Heavy dragoons – no moustaches
Light dragoons – no moustaches
Household Cavalry – no moustaches Scots Greys – great big droopy moustaches (at least by Foundry and Perrys) And idea why? What is the source of this? I've never seen a contemporary pictures showing taches. Just seems like another Perry whim (like the oilskin coveres). :) |
| Connard Sage | 28 Jul 2009 12:31 p.m. PST |
The Perrys and Foundry have got an extensive photo reference library that they try to keep secret. Does it really bother you? Or are you just making conversation? It doesn't matter either way, but I find it better to forestall the pedants. Because as sure as eggs is eggs, one of them will come up with a letter from trooper William McGonagle to his aunt Bessie dated 17 June 1815 asking her to send him some moustache wax… |
| Lord Hill | 28 Jul 2009 12:36 p.m. PST |
wow Connard Sage! 55  s! That must be a record. Thanks for your input. |
| Connard Sage | 28 Jul 2009 12:42 p.m. PST |
Yes 55, does that make my opinion any less valid? The first sentence was humour. Not brilliant humour I grant you, but it's not my day job The second was a question, an attempt to elucidate if you will. Now, which one ed you off so much that you had to go look at my count then come back here and take a cheap shot? I suppose you think you're so much better than I or you're looking at a grey box <shrug> |
| Plynkes | 28 Jul 2009 1:28 p.m. PST |
I've seen a Shep Paine 54mm diorama where they've got 'em. Maybe the Perry boys were cribbing from that? Odd, ain't it? Taches weren't in vogue at all in Blighty during this period. To take up the slack, the Victorians went absolutely apeshit with their facial hair.
Maybe them North British Dragoons were either trend-setters or hopelessly behind the times.
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| Plynkes | 28 Jul 2009 1:29 p.m. PST |
Yay! Apeshit beats the Swear-o-tron! Back of the net! (And no doubt the Doghouse for me, too) |
| forrester | 28 Jul 2009 2:27 p.m. PST |
I'm not sure the Perrys invented this-I'm sure I've seen illustrations of the Greys with moustaches many years ago--I wonder if it is one of those wargamer's suppositions which gathers currency with time.Similarly those oilskins I'm sure go back some years too. |
| Lord Hill | 28 Jul 2009 2:38 p.m. PST |
I agree with you Plynkes about the Victorian thing – seems an anachronism to me. I think it all stems from a Philip Haythornwaite pic ("Uniforms of Waterloo"?) which shows a Scots Grey in both moustache and oilskin. But if there's no primary evidence to support either it's just perpetuating an error I think. |
| Jovian1 | 28 Jul 2009 3:20 p.m. PST |
Well – how about some of these portraits of the Scots Greys where they DO have the 'stache??? picture picture Perhaps the Perry's used these as reference materials OR they sculpted the wrong heads on them as they were meant for the Crimean War. |
| huevans | 28 Jul 2009 3:46 p.m. PST |
Most countries had firm and serious stache rules. Essentially, no centre coy. infantryman could have a stache and no line infantry officer. But grenadiers could have big staches and light companymen little ones. Except in Britain where NO infantry could have staches. All cuirassier troopers had staches. But no heavy or line cavalry officers could have staches. All hussars, ulans and their officers must have staches. I believe the rule for Britain was that all cavalry but hussars should be clean-shaven, but this may have been winked at increasingly after the first couple of years in the Peninsula. All in all, it's a pretty hairy topic with a thick layer of wax over top. |
| Camcleod | 28 Jul 2009 7:58 p.m. PST |
Lord Hill I have a Historex painting guide for the Scots Greys that says:
"In the British Army at this time it was fashionable only for the Hussars and other Light Cavalry to wear the moustache, but this adornement was taken up by the Scots Greys and was worn by about 90% of the Regiment at Waterloo. Special permission was asked for in July, 1815 for the Greys to keep the moustache as a special mark." Cliff |
| Lord Hill | 29 Jul 2009 1:45 a.m. PST |
Brilliant Cliff, that's pretty conclusive!
Thank you very much, I can now feel happy painting those lovely Perry figs! The "90%" also means EVERYBODY is right (I think Front Rank are without whiskers) |
| Tommiatkins | 29 Jul 2009 1:48 a.m. PST |
The Scots Greys only allowed Real Men into their ranks, not the fuzzychinned wheedling yoofs of lesser regiments! |
| raducci | 29 Jul 2009 2:48 a.m. PST |
There was a tradition amongst British military illustrators and writers to show their chaps cleanshaven while all we Johnny Foreigners had, at best, 5 o'clock shadows if not zareebas of facial hair.
Most unfair……even if I've been shaving my face since I was 9 (my sister since she was 7). |
| von Winterfeldt | 29 Jul 2009 2:49 a.m. PST |
A painting of How showing the 2nd Dragoons bivouacing during the 1815 campaign show them wearing moustaches. Source : Mollo Waterloo Uniforms 1. British cavalry so – yes – the Perrys are right on this one. |
| Chouan | 29 Jul 2009 5:31 a.m. PST |
The near contemporary Denis Dighton painting clearly shows both mustaches and oilskin covers. |
| huevans | 29 Jul 2009 5:59 a.m. PST |
The Scots Greys only allowed Real Men into their ranks, not the fuzzychinned wheedling yoofs of lesser regiments! Err, and this was a regiment which hadn't seen actual combat since – IIRC – 1704? Unlike the English and Irish units who were not manly enough to wear facial hair?! The Scots…. Ye canna take the laddies seriously! |
| Supercilius Maximus | 29 Jul 2009 7:10 a.m. PST |
I think it was 1794/5 – perhaps you may be right about actually crossing swords with the enemy, and my dates are for service outside the UK.
I thought "handlebar" moustaches were worn only by the RAF?
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| 27th Foot | 29 Jul 2009 7:38 a.m. PST |
I seem to recall memoirs from British infantry officers from the Peninsula mentioning luxuriant whiskers on the redoubtable faces of line infantry officers. Given the laxity in their dress, perhaps some man fur was allowed as well? Best…..Mark |
 Der Alte Fritz  | 29 Jul 2009 8:32 a.m. PST |
You could even paint "milk" on their moustaches since the existence of facial hair seems to have been confirmed. |
| Robert le Diable | 29 Jul 2009 8:38 a.m. PST |
Many thanks to camcleod for that reference (but where did Historex find out?). I now regret having painstakingly pared away at plastic Esci figures years ago… |
| Gallowglass | 29 Jul 2009 8:44 a.m. PST |
Unlike the English and Irish units who were not manly enough to wear facial hair?! Everybody knows that French blood and brains are the divil to wash out of one's 'tache. Purely functional decision re the facefungus. |
| Camcleod | 30 Jul 2009 9:53 a.m. PST |
Robert le Diable I believe the Historex painting guides and all the artwork was done by Eugene Leliepvre – noted French artist, historian, etc.
The strange thing is, the coloured card supplied with the Grey's figure doesn't show them in moustache ??? link Cliff |
| By John 54 | 02 Aug 2009 12:39 p.m. PST |
The sideburns, or 'pistol butts' were to be no lower on the face than a line from the bottom of the ear, to the edge of the mouth, the regimental barbers had a length of leather string that was looped around the ears, and held in the mouth, to provide a template! bizarre! John |
| Lord Hill | 02 Aug 2009 4:13 p.m. PST |
Heavens! Excellent detail By John 54 – where does it come from? |
| By John 54 | 04 Aug 2009 5:10 p.m. PST |
it was on a pamphlet in a book in the officers mess of the Light Dragoons, in Swanton Morley, Norfolk, England. I was researching something or other about the 15th Hussars, it fell out of a book, and, as I said, was bizarre enough to mean I remember it all these years later! John |
paints brigs for the British fleet.
