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Canuckistan Commander Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 12:26 p.m. PST

…..Captured Trucks

The Germans captured 1000s of trucks, Polish Urnus, Soviet Gaz, French Renault, Italian FIAT, Austrian Steyr and Czech Skoda, plus many Western Allied. Does anyone know which German Divisions used these make in quatity? I know the 21st (V2) Panzer Division used French trucks almost exclusively in Normandy, what about the other makes and nationalities, anyone got any data?

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 1:01 p.m. PST

This Help?

This just from France,

"The French industries had also been mobilized by the German occupant:
Berliet
Various Berliet trucks were used by the German army (DGRA, GDC, GDM, VDCA etc.) and about 30 Berliet tank carriers were used by the Wehrmacht.
During 1943-1944 for example, 1262 trucks (5t) were produced for the German army. Bernard
A few Bernard trucks (fuel tank trucks etc.) were used by the German army. Citroën
Many booty cars, trucks and halftracks (Citroën Kégresse P14, P17, P19) were captured and used by the Germans. The Citroën-Kégresse P19 = Ci380(f) can for example be found in the Schnelle Brigade West. Many other vehicles were produced for the Germans between 1941 and 1944 like for example :
3700 type 23 trucks
6000 type 32U trucks
15300 type 45 trucks (the majority of the trucks of Schnelle Brigade West) Delahaye
About 1000 SdKfz-11 were produced for the Germans (ordered in 1942).
The Delahaye factory also produced spare parts for the Büssing-NAG 4500. ELMAG (in Mulhouse, Alsace)
Production of 1143 SdKfz-8 halftracks and spare parts for German halftracks between 1942 and 1944. Ford
At the beginning of WW2, the French Ford factories located at Poissy and Asnières were controlled by the Laffly company. They transformed 1000 Ford trucks in half-tracked trucks (Maultier) and produced spare parts for the Ford trucks captured in Europe. Gnôme-Rhône
Gnôme-Rhône in Gennevilliers (nowadays SNECMA) produced German engines for planes like the Henschel 129.
Gnôme-Rhône motorcycles and side-cars were also used by the Germans. Hotchkiss
During the occupation, Hotchkiss produced spare parts, engines and several chassis for the Germans from 1940 to 1944 . Some Laffly vehicles (R15R, S20TL, W15T etc.) and several Hotchkiss personal cars (PKW Typ680, 686 and 686 PNA) were also produced for the Germans. Isobloc
Numerous buses had been produced for the French army. Several W843M medical buses were used by the Germans. They could carry 30 lying wounded soldiers or a whole mobile chirurgical antenna. Laffly
Many Laffly V15R, S15R, S20TL, W15T etc. were captured and used by the Germans.
A small number of armored SPW based on the W15T were produced for the Schnelle Brigade West.
In 1942, 60 Renault R-40 tanks were transformed for snow milling. 119 Renault R-40 were modified for the Luftwaffe (towing vehicles ?) and 200 various German tracked vehicles were also modified for the Luftwaffe by the Laffly factory. Laffly transformed also 22 wheeled and 33 tracked vehicles in snow ploughs. Latil
Many Latil trucks and utility vehicles had been captured by the Wehrmacht. Some of the heavier trucks (Latil TAR H2) were again produced for the German forces. Lorraine
Many Lorraine 37L and 38L were captured and used or modified by the Germans. The Lorraine factory also produced 500 SdKfz-9 in 1942. Matford (in Strasbourg, Alsace)
Matford was born from the fusion between Ford and the French Mathis company. A few trucks were produced but mainly spare parts for the French booty Matford trucks like the Matford F917. Panhard & Levassor
About 2000 Panhard trucks were delivered to the Germans army and about 1000 couples of tracks for the SdKfz-7 have been produced. Peugeot
The factory is controlled by KDFWagen (future Volkswagen).
Many cars (Peugeot 202 and 402) and light trucks (Peugeot DMA, DK etc.) were captured and used but also produced. Between 1941 and 1944 Peugeot delivered to the Germans:
12500 Peugeot DK5
15300 Peugeot DMA
about 15000 Peugeot 202 and 402
That make about 28000 trucks delivered to the Germans.
The factory produced also spare parts for the Kübelwagen and a few Volkswagen type 82 and 166 were completed. 150 SdKfz-10 per month were also planned to be produced in 1942 but the delivered number is unknown. Renault
For Renault, most of the archives have disappeared during the allied bombings of 1944 but in François Vauvillier's book "l'automobile sous l'uniforme" it is indicated that about 28000 Renault trucks had been produced for the Germans during the occupation (AHS, AHN, AHR, AGC, ADK, ADH etc.). The Renault factories were administrated by Prinz Von Urach (who will later be the press attaché of Daimler-Benz after WW2). About 23000 Renault AHS trucks were used by the Germans (booty and new produced ones).
For example, from 1941 to 1944, 4000 Renault AHN and 2000 Renault AHR had been produced for the German army. In 1943, 704 AGC3 were deliverd.
Renault produced also spare parts for the SdKfz-7 and SdKfz-11. Saurer
Several trucks were still produced for the Germans, especially the Saurer type 3CT which was liked. For example between 1943 and 1944 some 1800 3CT trucks were delivered to the Germans. Simca
Simca produced personal cars for the German/Italian Army
1941/1942: 5983 Simca 5 (aka Fiat 500 Topolino) and 3960 Simca 8 (aka Fiat 1100)
1943: 122 Simca 8 and 19 Simca 5
1944: 180 Simca 8 and 23 Simca 5
Simca was intended to produce 2500 SdKfz-2 Kettenkraftrad but there seem not to have been produced. Tracks for the SdKfz-7, SdKfz-10 and SdKfz-11 were also produced. Somua
Beside the Somua S-35 tanks, many MCL named S303(f) and MCG named S307(f) halftracks were captured. Many of these halfracks have been armored. Talbot
From 1941 to 1944, Talbot produced tracks for the SdKfz-7, SdKfz-10 and SdKfz-11, braces for the Büssing-NAG S4500 and complete steering for the Panzer 38(t). Trippel
The factory was located at Molsheim (Alsace) in the former Bugatti factory. They produced the Trippel SG6 amphibious car. Unic
About 200 Unic TU1 U305(f) and 3000 Unic P107 U304(f) were used by the German army. Willeme
A few Willeme type DU10 (10t) heavy trucks were used by the German army.

Beside the booty vehicles, the main companies (Renault, Peugeot, Citroën, Panhard, Berliet and Saurer …) produced about 90,000 new trucks for the German army between 1941 and 1944. Especially for the Eastern front 200 French tanks were also converted to Mörserzugmittel / Artillerie-Schlepper / Bergeschlepper (tractors). "

link

A thread I created on another site,
Captured equipment. German Quartermaster and Maintenance nightmare
link

Robert

aecurtis Fezian Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 1:38 p.m. PST

Trucks!?!? Pshhh. Who the heck wants trucks?!?

link

anleiher20 Jul 2009 1:59 p.m. PST

Robert,

You are hereby commissioned a chevalier in the order of Des Camions Francais.

Well done.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 2:31 p.m. PST

Thanks anleiher :). I had remembered posting the info on the other site. Good thing I keep the links just for backup LOL. The amount and types of equipment used is just staggering. Robert

GOTHIC LINE MINIATURES20 Jul 2009 2:46 p.m. PST

I know a lot of Ford trucks were used in North African campaign to compensate for the lack of Opel blitz trucks,Bedfords were also used in numbers in the desert and at least one was shipped to Leros in 1943.
Lusitanus

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 3:03 p.m. PST

All those French vehicles in addition to this!!!

" Then here is a partial list of the TRUCKS alone employed in the German/Nazi automotive park, and the years in which they produced them:

Adler, 1900-1945, AEG, 1914-1953, Afa, 1918-1936, Audi, 1909-1945, Bergmann, Bergmann-Metallurgique, 1909-1952, Beuchelt, 1925-1936, Bleichert, 1923-1962, BMW, 1928-present, Bob, 1932-1941, Borgward, 1924-1961, Breuer, 1938, Büssing-NAG, 1931-1950, Butz, 1934, Citroen, 1927-1935, Daimler-Benz (Mercedes-Benz), 1926-present, Demag, 1937-1944, Deuliewag, 1936-1952, Deutz, 1918-1938, Dick, 1925-1939, DKW, 1928-1945, Esslingen (ME), 1926-1966, Famo, 1935-1944, FAUN, 1919-present, Ford (Ford-Köln), 1925-present, Framo, 1927-1943, 1949-1961, Freund (Wendax), 1933-1952, Goliath, 1929-1963, Hagedorn, 1938, Hamor, 1933, Hanomag, 1905-1944, Hanno (Hoffmann), 1935-1950, Hansa-Lloyd, 1913-1938, Henschel, 1925-1973, Hercules, 1908-1933, Horch, 1899-1945, Imperia, 1935, Kaiser, 1935-1936, Klöckner-Deutz (KHD), 1936-1945, Kramer, 1936-?, Kraus-Maffei, 1931-1955, Krupp, 1906-1942, Lanz, 1921-1954, Lanz-Eichhoff, 1937, Luther & Heyer, 1933-1937, Machoy, 1938, MAN, 1915-1956, Manderbach, 1928-1956, Maschinenbau Lüneburg, 1933, Meier, 1936, MIAG, 1936-1954, Müller, 1939, NAG, 1901-1934, NAG-Protos, 1929-1933, Neander, 1934-1939, Normag, 1938-1950, NSU, 1905-1974, Opel, 1907-present, Ostner (OD), 1932-1957, Phänomen, 1907-1945, Primus, 1932-1942, Renger, 1936-1940, Röhr, 1927-1935, Sachsenberg, 1942-1943, Schlüter, 1939-1942, Siemens-Schuckert, 1928-1939, Simson, 1911-1934, Stoewer, 1898-1945, Talbot (former Goosens), 1938-1941, Tempo, 1928-1966, Trippel, 1932-1945, Vögele, 1929-1950, Vomag, 1914-1944, Wanderer, 1905-1944, Weise, 1930-1939, Würdig, 1933-1935, Zettelmeyer, 1936-1954, Zündapp, 1933-1958."

link

Robert

Canuckistan Commander Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 4:19 p.m. PST

Excellent stuff, anyone know anything about the Polish Urnus Truck. The Polish aamy had a factory and several thousand were produced.

archstanton73 Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 4:23 p.m. PST

Yes very interesting--especially as most lacked interchangable parts and when they broke down on the steppes of Russia they generally stayed there!!!!
The Germans had lots of captured transport but without the ability to effectively maintain it were in the long term stuffed…

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 4:46 p.m. PST

From the Axis history site too especially the 21st Panzer.

Examples of units issues with French vehicles in Normandy in 1944:
100. Panzer Abteilung (committed to 91. ID)
Panzerkampfwagen 35R 731(f)
Panzerkampfwagen 39H 735(f)
Panzerkampfwagen 35S 739(f)
Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B2 (f)
Panzerkampfwagen 17R 730c(f)

21. Panzer Division
Panzerkampfwagen 35S 739(f)
Panzerkampfwagen 39H 735(f)
Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B1/B2 (f)
Panzerbeobachtungswagen auf 35/38/39H(f)
Großer Funk- & Beobachtungspanzer Lorraine-S (f)
10,5cm leFH18/40 auf Geschützwagen 38H (f)
10,5cm leFH18 auf Geschützwagen Lorraine
15cm sFH13/1 auf Geschützwagen Lorraine
8cm Reihenwerfer auf SPW Somua S303/307 (f)
8cm Vielfachwerfer auf SPW Somua S303/307 (f)
7,5cm Pak40 auf PzKpfw 38H (f) "Marder I (SdKfz 135)"
7,5cm Pak40 auf PzKpfw 39H (f) "Marder I (SdKfz 135)"
7,5cm Pak40/1 auf Geschützwagen Lorraine "Marder I (SdKfz 135)"
7,5cm Pak40 (Sf) auf mSPW S307(f)
4,7cm Pak(t) auf PzKpfw 35R (f)
Zugkraftwagen P107 U304(f)

Zugkraftwagen Somua MCL S303 (f)
Zugkraftwagen Somua MCG S307(f)
leSPW U304(f)
leSPW U304(f) (Fkl)
leSPW U304(f) (FlaK 38)
leSPW U304(f) (PaK 36)
leSPW U304(f) (8cm GrW)
mSPW S303(f)
mSPW S303(f) (Pionier)
mSPW S307(f)
Softskins : over 50 different softskin types (mainly French, but also some Italian ones) including Citroën, Laffly and Renault trucks. Unic-Kégresse P107 and Somua MCL and MCG halftracks as well as Somua SPWs were very common.
link

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 4:48 p.m. PST

"The interesting fact was that Soviet built ZIS-5 trucks were manufactured under the license of the Ford company, just as those produced by Germany and France (2-ton or 3-ton Ford truck). That fact allowed Germans who were already familiar with those vehicles to use as many as possible."

link

Robert

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2009 7:37 p.m. PST

Just because your country gets invaded, no reason to shut the factories down.
All royalty and license fees still get paid, although some into escrow accounts.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2009 7:49 p.m. PST

"Just when you thought every topic has been covered…"

Do a TMP search for "captured"…

Jemima Fawr Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 8:59 p.m. PST

1st LSSAH had been responsible for disarming Italian formations prior to Normandy and it is recorded that they took a great many Italian trucks with them to France in 1944.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member20 Jul 2009 9:53 p.m. PST

Even early in the war the French vehicles played a large part.

"In August 1940, Hitler already decided that in further enlargement of the Army, the possibility of a campaign against Soviet Russia had to be considered. By the time this campaign began in June 1941, 84 more divisions were created. Just before Barbarossa, 88 infantry divisions, 3 motorized infantry divisions and 1 Panzerdivision were largely equipped with French vehicles. Without the extensive booty from the western campaign of 1940, these units would have remained without weapons and vehicles. Motor vehicles in particular played an important role in the motorization the divisions. The 18.PzD was equipped with strictly stock French motor vehicles until the end of May 1941. Among the trucks, the 4.5-ton Citroën Type 45 attained a certain significance. The 1-ton Peugeot was also seen often. The same was true for the French halftrack (Somua MCL and MCG, Unic P107 etc.) towing vehicles, which were used as tractors in the Panzerjäger units, infantry gun companies and motorized artillery units.

Most of the motor vehicles (German, French or other booty trucks) massively used for various transports were not to have long lives under the rough conditions of the Eastern theatre of war. The progressive deterioration of the German army's motor vehicle situation already in the autumn of 1941 led to numerous use and new production of French trucks and also to the transformation of about 200 French tanks into towing vehicles/tractors (Renault and Hotchkiss Mörserzugmittel / Artillerie-Schlepper)."

link

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member21 Jul 2009 7:50 a.m. PST

Another example of what could happen when the parts aren't available.

"What happened most of the time is ancedotally described in one case in William Folkestad's biographical book Panzerjäger: Tank Hunter. He was in the 95th Infantry Division Pzjr Abt starting in February 1942. At the time he describes the battalion as being equipped with "Dunkurque surplus 4-wheel drive English Bedfords."
Most of these trucks (which he also says were otherwise well suited to the task of towing 37mm AT guns) were lost in the winter in Russia in short order. This is due to an oddity of English design. The fuel pump and filter housings were made partially of glass. In the extreme cold these had a tendency to crack or shatter when removed. The loss of the glass housing meant the loss of the truck as there were no replacements. "

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member21 Jul 2009 10:02 a.m. PST

Did you mean "Ursus" Fraserdw? Robert

Truck Builders of Poland: the Years 1928 to 1939
link

link

Canuckistan Commander Inactive Member21 Jul 2009 3:04 p.m. PST

I do and thanks!

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member21 Jul 2009 6:15 p.m. PST

Glad to help Fraserdw :). Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member21 Jul 2009 7:05 p.m. PST

A little bit more. This is from Wiki. So take with a grain of salt.

"In 1930, the Ursus factory fell on hard times due to the world financial crisis and was nationalized under the Pañstwowe Zak³ady In¿ynieryjne (National Engineering Works, PZIn¿), the Polish manufacturer of arms and vehicles. It then began producing military tractors, tanks and other heavy machinery for troops. During World War II , PZInz was relocated to Germany by the Germans and the remains were destroyed . After the war, the Ursus Factory was rebuilt and started producing copies of German pre-war Lanz Bulldog tractors. During the 1950s, the Ursus factory began producing tractors using a Zetor -based design."

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member22 Jul 2009 10:19 a.m. PST

BTW Just imagine adding to that long list of German and French trucks, ALL the other vehicles and AFVs that were captured and/or produced in the occupied countries. Imagine trying to keep the parts for all those in stock or in production and then to get them out to the maintenance units and then the nightmare of those units having the right part(s) on hand to do the repairs and keep the vehicles in service.
Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member22 Jul 2009 6:26 p.m. PST

Found this mentioning transport and the "Static" divisions

"Germany had already commandeered the motorized transport had been used by the defeated French, Belgian and Dutch armies. With all of those trucks, it had managed to roughly double the number of its panzer and motorised divisions, plus raise dozens of additional (regular) infantry divisions. Furthermore, Hitler was trying to show the German people that the war would not interfere seriously with the production of civilian goods, so the German automotive factories continued to produce military transport pretty much at 1939 levels."

"The transport of a Static Division (as the Allied Forces called them) was so limited that the artillery and the supply trains could not be moved at the same time. Since they were intended for coastal defense, military doctrine did not forsee moving their artillery batteries anyway. Some of these divisions had less than a dozen motor vehicles."

"Although transport was short, in the event of an emergency local civilian vehicles (motor and horse) were commandered to give these units more mobility. Then after the surrender of Italy in 1943, some of the captured Italian trucks were used to partially motorize some of these Static Divisions. The 243rd and 346th were partially motorized, being reduced to 6 infantry battalions each. The 265th and 266th in Brittany each had one regiment that was partially motorized along with a supporting artillery battalion (these kampgruppes would be detached for rapid reaction to an Allied invasion, which was what actually happened). In the Pas de Calais zone, the 19th Luftwaffe Field and 326th Divisions also received a compliment of motor vehicles with the former being sent to Italy at the end of May, 1944. The 715th Division was also fully motorized and sent to Italy."
link

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member22 Jul 2009 10:03 p.m. PST

Regarding the British trucks and other vehicles being used by the Wehrmacht during the war I would think that they would be some of the ones that would be the most hard pressed to keep repaired and operational. Quite a few of the German,French and Soviet ones were at least based on Ford designs IIRC. Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Jul 2009 10:11 a.m. PST

IIRC also I have seen a pic of a Italian Fiat TM-40 SPA Artillery Prime mover being used to tow a V-2 rocket somethere. Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member23 Jul 2009 6:17 p.m. PST

There was also the captured Polish vehicles like the Polski Fiat 621L 2.5 ton truck used by the Polish Army and in civilian use. It was a copy of the Italian FIAT 621 so some parts would have been interchangable. Robert

Mal Wright Fezian Inactive Member24 Jul 2009 12:54 a.m. PST

Just as today, motor companies had factories in other countries. Fiat in particular, had factories in Germany, Hungary, Poland, Austria and other places. These continued to churn out vehicles throughout the war. Hence many cars and buses in German service were not always captured, but simply taken new from the above mentioned factories.
Various types of Fiat Bus were extensively used by the German army.

The Fiat company was one of the largest manufacturers of vehicles in Europe.

Even Morris had a factory in Germany and there were American companies too.

Captured vehicles were made use of where ever possible because the Wehrmacht was way behind the 8 ball in meeting its motor requirements. What was probably a mistake, was that there were only a few instances where they were concentrated together to ease spare parts problems.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member24 Jul 2009 11:13 a.m. PST

Ford was very prevalent all over the world when it came to the truck industry. Interesting that the assembly line factories like Ford in the other countries didn't have an influence on manufacturing other items of importance like armored vehicles in Germany. Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member24 Jul 2009 5:31 p.m. PST

More on Ford trucks in Germany.

Ford at War: Fighting for Both Sides
The Story of a WWII German Ford Army Truck

"As the storm clouds of war gathered over Europe in September 1939, however, the Ford plant Cologne was very quickly put on a war footing and immediately began to produce aircraft and trucks for Hitler's war machine. In fact, a lesser known and remarkable fact of WWII is that during the period 1939 – 1945, the European subsidiaries of Ford and General Motors (GM) built approx 90% of all armoured 'maultier' (3 ton tracked trucks) and almost 70% of all Germany's medium and heavy duty trucks – the remainder being supplied by German companies such as Mercedes and Opel. Not only were trucks used by the German army but also many Ford motor cars were put into service – Ford reliability had been proved many times over and thus quickly found favour amongst the Whermacht.

Following the continuing victories in the West by the German armed forces, Ford factories in Holland, France and Belgium also fell into German hands and each proceeded to assist in the arming of Hitler's war machine. In fact so impressed was Hitler with Henry Ford for his contributions to automobile manufacture that Ford was awarded the Grand Cross of the Order of the German Eagle for services to the Third Reich – the highest party accolade a foreigner could receive. At this time – 1937 and 1938 – Hitler's rearmament program was already running at full speed and history records that the German subsidiary of Ford Motors, Ford Werke AG had willingly become involved in Hitler's war preparations.

Interestingly, although the Ford V8 flathead engine is generally thought of as being manufactured only in America between 1932 and 1952, the German love affair with the Ford V8 flathead engine continued through until the early 1960s. The German army's main truck at that time, the Ford type G 398 SAM 3 ton 4x4 was designed to meet NATO specifications, and these trucks were delivered to the German Bundeswehr from 1957 to 1961. They were powered by the same 3.9 litre V8 petrol engine as the wartime trucks with little changes only in improvements in material quality and water cooling channel design. Around 8,000 of the Ford SAM trucks were delivered before production at Cologne ceased in 1971.

The distinguishing feature between the original American made V8 flathead and the German V8 flathead engines is that the distributor is rear mounted on the German engine and front mounted on the American flathead engine. Most other mechanical parts are interchangeable, which always makes finding replacement parts a lot easier although what you will often find is that the part that you really need is not one of those easily found interchangeable ones!

Until Dec 1941 America remained a neutral country in the war and communications between the American Ford offices and their European subsidiaries was still going smoothly. When Ford America brought out their new Ford 3 ton 4 x 2 truck in 1940 it therefore came as no great surprise when Ford Cologne introduced the new style Ford 3 ton truck in 1941, albeit with some minor changes. The designation for the truck was the G198T (Classification codes were country G (Germany), model Year 1 (1941), engine size 9 (3,9 litre) & type T (truck). The 3 ton Ford truck with the 3.9 litre V-8 95hp flathead engines were called the V3000S by the Wehrmacht."
link

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member25 Jul 2009 9:36 a.m. PST

In my search for knowledge on this subject I came across this site!! Wow!!! For those who would just be interested in just civilian vehicles this is a trove of information. Though there is quite a bit of info and photos on military vehicles too.Robert

autogallery.org.ru/oldt.htm

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member25 Jul 2009 7:54 p.m. PST

Some nice pics here.

Oldtimers picture gallery. Trucks. Ford (Germany) (only pre-1945 here).
since 1926 Ford Motor Company AG, Berlin,
since 1931 Ford Motor Company AG, Köln-Niehl,
since 1935 independent from American import,
since 1939 Ford Werke AG, Köln-Niehl.

link

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member26 Jul 2009 1:53 p.m. PST

I had also forgotten the Lend Lease Studebaker US6 trucks supplied to Russia. Some were IIRC captured by the Germans and put to use also. Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member27 Jul 2009 11:27 a.m. PST

Regards the Studabaker. Looks like another vehicle that parts would be hard to get if there weren't alot that were captured. Robert

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