"40K & OD&D Derivative game" Topic

PLEASE READ THE WHOLE ING OP BEFORE RESPONDING!!!

I have been thinking for a long time now about using one of the OD&D games as the springboard for a derivative work that would be based on role playing in the 40K universe.

This would simply be something for those of us who want to role play inquisitors, space marines, eldar, etc., but don't enjoy the complexity of Dark Heresy or Inquisitor. I would probably use Goblinoid Games' Labyrinth Lord and Mutant Futures as the base games, and add in 20 pages or so of rules on how to convert the various character classes into their 40K equivalents, maybe give a sample adventure and a few encounter tables, and that would be it.

My question involves IP. I plan to create a website and a yahoo group, and post the rules for free download. Is this a real legal problem, as long as I point out with great verbosity that it is a derivative work? I know that GW will think it is a problem, whether it is or not, but I am curious as to the realities. If it gets taken down, so be it, as I really only want to have fun with the thing, and would not charge for it even if I could.

Now, that said, IF YOU A NOT A ING LAWYER, PLEASE DON'T START PRACTICING LAW. I know that a few of you guys are IP attorneys, and might be able to give me the straight dope on this. However, I know that a vast number of you guys are not IP attorneys, but think you are.

Please don't chime in with any well meaning nonsense. Many of you who are so quick to jump on IP infringement somehow fail to remember that practicing law without a license is both morally and legally far worse than IP infringement. First because you are taking something that is not yours (the license to practice law) and second because you don't really know what you are talking about, but are nonetheless setting yourself up as an authority, and can cause people problems thereby.

So, if you are not a lawyer, PLEASE START YOUR POST WITH THE WORDS "I AM NOT A LAWYER". If you want to give GENUINE anecdotal advice (Well, Fred did this, and here's what happened…) fine, but please make sure you have your facts straight.

Regards

I AM NOT A LAWYER, but why don't you e-mail GW and ask them what they think about your idea? (Maybe because you know what the answer will be.)

I AM NOT A LAWyer

but I've never played one on TV either.

Please don't chime in with any well meaning nonsense.

Does anyone knowingly offer nonsense?

As in:
"Wow, I just wrote a whole load of hooey, but I guess I'll hit the post button anyway."

For what its worth, if you are this concerned about possible legal ramifications, I think you have answered your own question.

I AM NOT A LAWYER, BUT I PLAY ONE ON TV.

Many of you who are so quick to jump on IP infringement somehow fail to remember that practicing law without a license is both morally and legally far worse than IP infringement.

So are you a lawyer now?

jpattern2 "…why don't you e-mail GW and ask them what they think about your idea? (Maybe because you know what the answer will be.)"

Yes, I know what the answer will be. I don't care. I'm curious what the law is.

Guiscard "Does anyone knowingly offer nonsense?"

On TMP? You're joking, right?

Thomas Whitten "So are you a lawyer now?"

Matter of fact, I am. Just not an IP specialist.

Matter of fact, I am. Just not an IP specialist.

I would think you would have access to better resources to answer this question then the TMP.

Yes, I know what the answer will be. I don't care. I'm curious what the law is.

Then you need to consult a lawyer who specialized in corporate or IP law not a bunch of gamers. If you want legal advice that will stand up in court your going to have to pay for it more than likely.

Dave

If you want legal advice that will stand up in court your going to have to pay for it more than likely.

One would assume that a lawyer would be aware of that.

well we all know what GW will say…

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO….

and you owe us $1 USD million for copyrights infringement.

Those *&^%& don't even want anyone to use pics of there products or the correct names of them to sell then on-line, so why would you even think for 1 second there gonna let that go anywhere but straight to there lawyers offices.

Here's your sign…

I am a lawyer.

I am not giving you legal advice, or taking you as my client.

There are a lot of areas of law that I don't practice in.

If I wanted to very quickly educate myself on the broader points of a particular area of law, I would look for a book called Intellectual Property, Patents, Trademarks, and Copyright in a Nutshell.

Generally, the Nutshell series is well written,concise, and a good starting point for more serious research.

You might try Amazon, or Half-Price books if you have one in your neighborhood… Half-Price books will probably also have some other textbooks on the topic, and likely, very cheap if that is something that you have in your area.

Sigh.

BTW Yes I have picked up a nutshell once or twice. I do not recommend reading one and then plunging into a new area of law.

Why does this have to be so tough? I am not asking for legal advice, just a quick overview.

the answer the this quation will always be
NO!!!!!!!!!!! You can not do that.

smeghead

LOL!!!!!! Thomas Whitten you are very quick. Laughed my arse off at that one. :)

@ Inquisitor Thaken: Why the hell are you asking for fair dinkum legal advice on TMP?

p.s. Excellent idea, though! I'd sign up to the yahoo group in a second.

It seems to me by the incredibly defensive tone of your posts that you are going to do whatever you want to do anyway…

But…

Having worked for GW for several years, in the back office, in management and marketing, I would have recommended the immediate service of a "Cease and Desist" letter.

Have a nice day.

The Sentient Bean "@ Inquisitor Thaken: Why the hell are you asking for fair dinkum legal advice on TMP?"

Because I have no contact with IP attorneys on a regular basis, and this is not something that is important enough to me that I would bother spending money on it.

I thought that -just maybe- one of these guys might throw a case or two that was on point in my direction.

"p.s. Excellent idea, though! I'd sign up to the yahoo group in a second."

Thanks.

Dremel Man "It seems to me by the incredibly defensive tone of your posts that you are going to do whatever you want to do anyway…"

Probably.

"Having worked for GW for several years, in the back office, in management and marketing, I would have recommended the immediate service of a "Cease and Desist" letter."

To which I reply, "Who cares?" I can, at this moment, write a cease and desist letter to GW, telling them to stop producing their games or risk legal action. The question is, what teeth does the letter have? I am not scared of an army of lawyers, provided I have case law on my side. If not, that is another matter.

Have a nice day.

I guess I am just cantankerous today or I would move along from this obvious bait-post…

But as others have said. If you are a lawyer, and sooo smart and determined, do the research yourself. Why rely on TMP for "expert legel advice". And why listen to the proferred "common sense" of others.

My opinion is, bottom line, you will be end up in court if you make a commercial enterprise of this.

Perhaps that is your goal, to which I say.
Good luck and enjoy the legal fees!

Have a wonderful day.

Can you stifle a lawyer? Why, yes, yes you can.

then

Coming from someone that said,

complexity of Dark Heresy

only gets a LOL.

Read their IP page.

I'm getting the &

Asking for legal advice on the miniatures page is like asking for medical advice at the local miniature golf course. You might get lucky every once in a while but it is still an absurd way to try to find out what you want to know.

I am not a lawyer and I have never stuffed one into a tank full of pirannas… Honest.

The main thing to remember in a case like this is simple. If they send a 'cease and desist' notice, how much time, effort etc would you have lost in complying? And if you think they have no case, do you have the large amount of money to throw away by fighting it?

Both of these points are far more important than if you are or are not infringing their IP and Copyright.

As to your intent, it cannot in any way even feel like a commercial use of their terms and ideas, otherwise it is an instant NO. If it is purely a fan project you might, and I say might, be able to do so, certainly webcomics and other non for profit uses do happen.

GW is very protective of thier stuff, and it would pay to tread carefully, before commiting too much tme and effort.

I find it amusing that he bemoans the "snarky comments and bruised egos" of the responses in light of the tone of every single post he made in the thread, including the original one.

'Vanity of vanities, the whole thing is a vain parade…'

- Monk

You would think he would have gone to a law office and found him a real lawyer and paid for real legal advice, if that is what he wanted.

(Deliberate snarky comment) Nah, he'd rather come here and bitch at people who don't respond EXACTLY how he wants them to. I agree that he should ask a real lawyer or better yet, do the research himself. Or have one of his paralegals do it since that is their JOB. But since I don't believe he's a lawyer at all I guess the imaginary paras really can't help him much… 8)=