"Where has all the Magic gone?" Topic

Over the last half a dozen years I've had an annual sale of my miniatures and games partially to fund my the comic I put out. All well and good. I only regretted selling off figures I'd painted as they didn't go for much more and I put a lot of time and effort into them. But on the whole I was happy.

Now, I'm having a bit of renewed interest in fantasy gaming, I'm looking around for new miniatures (if new ones are less expensive, I'm happy to buy new) and am a bit dismayed by what I see. Lots of overstylised nonsense and generic sub-GW copies.

I just want simple, well sculpted mini's with personality. My favourite era was mid 80's citadel and metal magic figures (luckily mega mini's seem to have them).

I am starting to regret selling a few things off now!

Is there somethign wrong with the fantasy mini market, or am I just old and moaning on :)

Anyway, suggestions for companies who make nice fnatasy figures welcome.

Paul

Things move on, I suppose, not always for the better.
Assuming your looking for some simple but nicely executed sculpts, follows are some suggestions.

A couple of companies (EM4 & Mirliton) are still producing some of the old Grenadier fantasy stuff. The Barbarians are my favourites. Painting an army of Conan clones seems the epitomy of pulp fantasy to me.

Eureka also have some varied bits and pieces. The Frogs, in particular, are great. Some pictures of their Frogs riding Toads appeared on TMP recently.

Can't go wrong with Tom Meir's Elves (Thunderbolt Mountain), and believe it or not most of the GW LotR range (Perry sculpts) is not too over the top.

Yes, I have a few of the new LOTR range, which are quite nice.

I should add, much as I love some of the older figures, I'm happy to buy new ones, in fact, I'd prefer to. I really like Blue Moon, Pulp Miniatures and many others, largely for pulp, but the fnatasy figures seem to be a bit weird for me these days.

As an example of what I mean by overstylised, here is a troll I found.

picture

I appreciate eveyone has their own tastes, and if you like this, good for you! But I think this is horrible :)

Yes, like the suggestions, I'll boviously have to put more work into my search (and I have a lot to paint as it is :)

All the best

paul

Goodluck Paul,
I drifted away from fantasy with the introduction of slotta-bases. How I hated those friggin things! These came along with the cartoonish orcs, etc. I prefer the old T. Meier sculpts.

The pic you linked to is a good example. It does not look like anything that could really exist.

The good thing is, I've become interested in some fantasy and sci-fi again because of 15mm figures.

Try Otherworld Minis for figures very much inspireed by 1e AD&D. Also it pays to scour other ranges. Reaper has plenty of good, "realistic" sculpts FREX…

Damon.

Take a look at Ral Partha Europe as well link done in the 90's but still hold up well in my opinion.

The good old days…
Sigh…
The golden pre-slotta days…
Where are they gone…?
Where fantasy miniatures weren't cartoonish:
link
And trolls looked like anorectic with cirrhosis ascites, that couldn't carry a hobbit.
picture
;-)))
I would say you're getting sentimental.

Look at the the changing physique of comic super heros and you know what is going on.

I'm biased, but you might try the Petal Throne line produced by Eureka Miniatures. It's non-medieval/Middle Earth based fantasy set on the world of Tekumel (in earth's far distant future) so there are no elves, dwarves or orcs.

Currently the range is mostly soldiers, but I hope to have non-humans and other types added before too long.

tekumel.com

Regards,

Howard Fielding
The Tekumel Project

Heh, Borrible, I stand guilty as charged!

There have always been rubbish minatures and they still make good ones. I admit that!

I just want a bit of wistfulness and beauty to my figures. I also don't mind a little cartoonishness if done well and in moderation. It must be possible to have a bit more of the fantasy and the magic, and a little lass 'waagh' and 'kewl'. Surely?

I also don't mind slotta bases!

I think it's possibly that I don't like this overblown manga element to a lot of the new stuff. It all looks like it's escaped from a sort of heavy metal pokemon cartoon.

I also think that too may companies have followed the games workshop model and produced whole lines of bizarre copyrightable figure types into their worlds that you are supposed to buy into.

Bah humbug!

I think things have improved a lot in the last few years. There was a time where I started to get the feeling that every fantasy figure was a contender for Warhammer and anything Sci-Fi was a big shoulder pad space marine knockoff.

Iron Wind Metals produces classic Ral Partha miniatures in the U.S. link

The Blackbloods (a conglomerate of Orcs, Ogres, Trolls and Goblins) in the Chronopia game were definitely not cartoony and worth a look.

Far from the green buffoons of GW fame, they were possibly the most civilized race in that world. Certainly my favorites.

They should be available on eBay and new in package from Prince August.

@paulvonscott
Wasn't meant personally and with tongue in cheek.
I'm in this hobby for about 25 years with some big hiatus in between.
There is so much out there to choose from, I never would have dreamed of back then.
Its all just a matter of taste, and I don't blame those companies making money with a verifiable successful business model.
Its obviously what their main customer group wants.
So what?
G.I.Joe became a testosterone monster, Spiderman became a testosterone monster.Luke Skywalker became a testosterone monster.
Mayhaps in the next ten years they become skinny big eyed manga monsters.
As long as there is enough to choose from, I'm fine with it.

"Wasn't meant personally and with tongue in cheek."

No worries, that's how I took it :)

I agree there does seem to be a healthy scene of small companies and individuals doing their own thing. I certainly wouldn't want to stop anyone enjoying what they do. Variety is certainly a good thing.

I'll keep an eye out at the games fairs I think. I do still have lots of nice figures, so I shouldn't complain.

How about Reaper?

I've got a lot of stuff instock usually at a discount if you want to have a look at my ebay store…

auction

If you missed the suggestion above, go to the Otherworld Miniatures site right now:
otherworld.me.uk

These are brand new figures by top sculptors but with some retro styling. They are perfect for those of us with a sentimental attachment to the old school who also want high quality design and execution.

Also I'll second Thunderbolt Mountain and Reaper as featuring top sculptors from the old days doing modern figures with high quality.

And since you mentioned Mega Miniatures, I'll confirm that Johnny provides great service if you need to fill in your Metal Magic collection. I've bought the re-released figures many times through the web or off the rack at stores and cons.

I'm amazed so few people have mentioned Reaper. They've got some of the best sculpts and sculptors in the business, and their sheer range would seem to demand attention, if what you want is a variety of well-sculpted fantasy minis.

Prices beat GW all hollow, too.

Borrible, RAFM is still in production as Silver Fox, if you like their stuff.:)

I need a good UK supplier for Reaper mini's if anyone has one…

Be careful with Reaper. While the miniatures are very nice they are also very big. Don't match very well with almost anything else on the market.

Reaper make some nice figures, as mentioned.

Black Hat's two fantasy ranges are well sculpted and not as OTT as other ranges. link

There's another company who's figures are sold in my FLGS but the name escapes me…

If you're looking for "simple, well sculpted mini's with personality", I'd suggest Crocodile Games and World Of Twilight, for a start.

For armies try Vendel miniatures. Very "realistic" stylings.

Rich

Paul,

I'd have to know several examples of what you like before I can recommend anything.

I can honestly say that almost any style and size of mini can be found today.

You might try Darksword Miniatures. They are much like Ral Partha used to be, but they scale better with stuff from today. The ironic thing is that as sculpting proportions have actually improved, many critics actually say that they are over-syled, too dynamic, etc. But, you put any confrontation figure against any Citadel mini from the 1980s and you will realize that it is Citadel, not Rackham, who is further from human proportions.

Of course, Rackham has gone to rubbish plastic, so the hell with them. But their metals can be had on ebay for cheap these days (except a few rare pieces). But again, do you want true 25mm? If so, Iron Wind Metal and Ral Partha Europe are better. If you want larger and more cartoony, there are those too, even among Reaper (who seems to be going more that way). If you want true scale humans, consider Mithril.

There have never been more miniature choices than there are today.

I'll try darksword. Love a lot of the crocodile games stuff, some oif it is a bit over the top, but on the whole I approve.

I should say that as far as pulp and science fiction miniatures go, the figure ranges available now are amazing. I mean, you can just get some great figures, and I have! I've also bought great pirates and wild west figures too.

But fntasy… I remain hard to impress, (but then, I always was) I just wondered if it was a bit on the decline. I think figures that are slavish to scale/anatomy a bit dull, and anything that goes off on too much of a flight of fancy, a bit overpowering.

I prefer 28mm and dip a bit above and below as I see fit.

SO… I feel quite moderate in my views, but just unimpressed by what's out there. Thanks for all the info guys, I'll keep looking!

…so, it should not be carefully in proportion, nor stylistically overpowering.

28mm…

Older Reaper miniatures (especially Garrity sculpts), Old Glory Dwarf Wars, Hasslefree, and some of the less fancy Freebooter miniatures should work. Also, you can still get Grenadier from Mirilton.

I guess that it is hard for me to understand what you want because, like I said, there is SOOOOOO much out there these days, there has to be something for everyone… …everyone except someone who wants 100% OOP citadel sculpts. And those are available on ebay.

I like the Vendel Miniatures fantasy lines – very simple "Dark Agey" miniatures, which work rather nicely with historicals from Gripping Beast.

Norscaman, I am prepared to admit I need to do more footwork, but I've found looking for good fantasy much harder than my search for pulp, wild west, pirates and sci-fi. Still, all the options posted here have helped a lot.

Anyway, in the meantime I do have a lot of old citadel villagers and townfolk to paint (I bought them back when nobody wanted them, which is just as well, as I'd rather buy new ones that pay 'more than new' prices for old).

I have started building a small village/town (we'll see how far I get) and am digging out my fantasy figures and sorting out what I have. My idea is to play a fantasy skirmish game that owes no allegience to any company's idea of what my game should be (and what figures I own), but rather to a more general fantasy ideal.

I've bought a few black tree/mega mini's miniatures and am waiting for them to arrive. Will get a biut more pro-active ocne I've painted what I have :p, so i'm just looking for now.

As an example of what I mean by overstylised, here is a troll I found.
(picture of Privateer Press Dire Troll)
I think this is horrible

Horrible? It isn't a "D&D" Troll, granted, but D&D is hardly the stylistic center of things, much as they would like to think so.

My idea is to play a fantasy skirmish game that owes no allegience to any company's idea of what my game should be (and what figures I own), but rather to a more general fantasy ideal.

"general fantasy ideal"

Fantasy artists can't even agree on what Orcs should look like, the Troll as D&D defines it was created in the 1960s, and 99% of "modern" fantasy writing is heavily polluted by Tolkien, D&D, or both. If that's your "general fantasy ideal" so be it, but please don't belittle those who have dared to move beyond Middle Earth and the Forgettable Realms for their fantasy. The "magic" is there whether you see it or not.

Though I thought I was sticking my neck out with the original post, I have been very pleasantly surprised by the very helpful posts.

However… I think you've both misinterpreted and misrepesented me there, Farstar. The better half of me says to let it go, but you have made quite a pointed post.

I don't play D&D or use it as my frame of reference. I certainly haven't intended to belittle anyone who does something beyond Middle Earth and D&D, as I'm one of them.

I also made it clear that I was making a very personal choice with my troll pic, and that if other people liked it, that's fine. I'm looking for figures I like, not trying to stop people enjoying theirs. Variety is healthy.

My general fantasy ideal was very clearly a reference to how the games are played and not an artistic style (I wouldn't attempt to regulate how orcs look, I just it's a shame that so many now look the same).

On that note, thanks for your help guys, it'll take me a while to follow up all the leads, but I think we'll leave this for now.

All the best

Paul

I also made it clear that I was making a very personal choice with my troll pic, and that if other people liked it, that's fine. I'm looking for figures I like, not trying to stop people enjoying theirs. Variety is healthy.

My general fantasy ideal was very clearly a reference to how the games are played and not an artistic style

Since you uttered not a word about "how the games are played" until now, I contest the assertion that this was "very clear". All of your prior comments are on the appearance of the miniatures. And you chose to rip on one of the lines (Privateer Press) that is purposely different from prior expectations.

That condemnation, the topic title, and opening post add up to a message that says loudly "I hate all the new stuff I see". If that was not your intended message, consider using less loaded words.

I just want simple, well sculpted minis with personality.

And yet you profess to hate a model of a smooth-skinned, well-muscled, and obviously upset troll on the move, while liking static, fish-faced, and often deeply and overly detailed Hobby Products minis.

Apparently your definitions of "simple", "well-sculpted", and "personality" differ from mine.

Variety, as you say, is good.

Sorry, but…

"My idea is to play a FANTASY SKIRMISH GAME that owes no allegience to any company's idea of what MY GAME should be (and what figures I own), but rather to a more GENERAL FANTASY IDEAL."

I just think you're just being rude. Please stop bothering me.

(looks at own post count)

Can't promise that, but yeah, we're done here.

I understand what you are saying, i look at my dads mini's and they all have an elegance to them, the ones you buy today look nice yes but they are really pricey and just not the same, and if i was going to spend my time painting a figure i would rather paint one that had a form of charactor, even personality, The miniatures that they are releasing as of late, seem to be well bland

Or if they are sleek and of a certain ambiance (whatever that ambiance happens to be for the line), they're pricey. As gorgeous as the Confrontation pewter minis were, cheap was definitely not in the equation.

Similarly, my other really bad habit, Infinity, is also not cheap. Dynamic, check. Matching in style to a lot of Masamune Shirow's art, check. Price? well, somewhere between $8 USD and $15 USD a figure for regular infantry, with motorcycles and bots at the high end. The big TAGs are $40+.

Even the Tale of War minis, with those incredibly dynamic Spartans, are $15 USD a figure.