"HMGS-East Board minutes" Topic

How come there are no minutes of board meetings posted on the HMGS East website since March of 2008?

hmgs.org/bodminutes.htm

Because it would just upset you.

Again milk through the nose, John!

I wonder if they'll post them up to date before the next round of Directors gets voted out.

Bad leadership always attempts to control information flow….you know that!

I'm not sure why people expect secret societies to go public…

LOL. One marvels at the notion that a group like HMGS could attempt to justify keeping ANYTHING secret.

The ability of people to inflate their self-importance is mind-boggling. Yes, the miniature gaming hobby needs above all else, more operational regulations and more secrecy in management. Unreal.

BoD minutes have a history of one of two problems – either the board members can't agree on the minutes and therefore lag in approving them in a timely manner, or the secretary isn't getting them done, circulated and posted in time.

My advice is start by asking the secretary first. ;-)

I remember the days when the malcontents insisted that the minutes be prepared and available as soon as possible, which we did, as best we could. Now that the malcontents are in charge there are no rules for them…

db

I was wondering the same and have not posted to the board yet as I am waiting for the election to be over. That way the four or five folks who care about the organization will be the only ones to post on the fourm about it! ;-)

If I were a betting man I would guess MIA board members has something to do about it.
VR
James Mattes

James – MIA for OVER A YEAR !?!?

I realize most of you distain politics but the sooner you realize that all the sound and fury over the East BoD and their decisions is just poltics on a smaller scale. Power is power and unchecked power is dangerous if the individuals wielding that power don't have the best interest of the people they serve at heart. It may over used but the concept that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely is no less true for an organization like East than .

Looking at the results of the BoD election it is clear that there is no restraint among the BoD members, just as with , no matter which, there is no balance of power. Bad things happen under those circumstances.

db

db

As I recall, the minutes where usually long missing when you were a board member too. Care to comment as to why, as perhaps that would help the understanding here.

If we had an actual newsletter we could have had a better idea as to what the BoD were thinking BEFORE they hit the "Move to Baltimore" button. Minutes of meetings could have helped us.

I sent a few emails outlining why the move would NOT be good. I had put on games for GW at the BCC. This is real-life experience not some theory. The BoD didn't listen, okay fine. If we had a newsletter members might have been forewarned but no… no newsletter to tell us this. Which worthless BoD member is in charge of this? Who dropped the ball… for the last few years? I think she got re-elected. :)

Pancerni, I empathize with your thought but the cold hard truth is that no one in a position of power ever has the best interests of the people at heart. I know I will take heat for saying this but it is true and everything else is stuff people tell themselves so they feel better about the world.

The only thing that could do anything at all, imo, is to weaken the BOD powers by a more restrcitive guiding document or constitition, though this can be ignored/sidestepped as well. And even if major decisions required a vote, the BOD would use the resources of the origanization to promote its viewpoint while any who opposed would be on TMP ranting uselessly.

People disdain politics because nothing ever changes, nothing ever gets better. It just gets worse and worse. And in the end, the decisions of HMGS are really not all that crucial to anyone's life so it is very easy to become apathetic and simply check out.

Maybe a downer but it is true.

I try very hard to stay out of these posts because most of the time I believe they are not productive – I am posting now because of AVIDGAMERS post regarding the newsletter. I was in charge of the newsletter 2 years ago – I couldn't get ONE out due to injuries suffered in a car accident – I had successfully gotten several newsletters out before that – I have not been in charge of the newsletter for more than a year and a half. I am the director of Outreach and Education – not Communications – the pointed use of "she" is just malicious since I have been the only female on the board until the past election. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Heather Blush

"Please stop spreading misinformation."

It's nothing new for him when it comes to HMGS stuff. If he is so unhappy with how things are done I wonder why are he is not running for office to show everybody the "proper" way to run the organization?

Because it's easier to anonymously complain and criticize, perhaps?

Mr Editor could you please kill this thread.

We don't normally kill topics on TMP. If you have a problem with a specific post, please use the Complaint button.

The delayed posting of minutes have a long history in this organization, as does the stop and start newsletter (which I think was first really stopped during db's tenure on the BoD, or there abouts, due to excessive spending and an uncertain balance sheet).

In order for the minutes to be approved every participating member of the BoD must review them, make corrections, and then approve, so there can be some haggling on what was and wasn't said.

The current secretary – who is also responsible for keeping accurate membership rolls – travels the world over for weeks at a time, so that only complicates the process and adds to the delays. But again, your questions on status should start with him as he is the official keeper of the minutes.

With the advent of cheap digital video cameras, Christ someone just tape the meeting. Or do they forbid that?

Cheers, Xin

What! No Board minutes? OMG, this is huge. No wonder my question like Avidgamer about deciding to punch the move button will never be answered. I am now truly lost and heading south down I-83 towards Baltimore.

As was pointed out, all BoD members need to approve the draft minutes. Our secretary, despite accumulating many frequent flyer miles, or an alternate, have posted drafts in a timely manner. It is the rest of the board who have fallen down (me included).
We recognize that a year is too long to wait for published minutes and, hopefully, have come up with a way to streamline the process.

John Drye

With the advent of cheap digital video cameras, Christ someone just tape the meeting. Or do they forbid that?

Cheers, Xin

I imagine that would work for non-confidential stuff. I would even suggest it be recorded with an MP3 recorder and/or use speech to text software.

Of course when discussion leads into opinions about other people and groups or specifics around contract negotiating, I suppose they wouldn't want that getting into general circulation, and to a degree I understand that.

I think instead of changing the rules about moving, we change the rules so that our elections are for actual officers (Pres, treasure etc.)

I have long advocated that, but the counter is that the board is best equipped to decide who goes where. Me? I like to vote on that as it:

1. Holds board members accountable to a specific job

2. Would demand job descriptions be created for each spot on the board

3. People interested in a specific position would run for that spot only

4. Candidated would have to state clearly what their qualifications are for that specific position, not just that they are gamers and want to help.

I also think a prerequisite for running should be some volunteer hours working staff at conventions too.

Just me though. :-)

"I imagine that would work for non-confidential stuff."

Seriously, what could possibly be justifiably confidential in the governance of a group like HMGS. The very thought that this could be justified is a great chunk of what is wrong.

"I imagine that would work for non-confidential stuff."

Seriously, what could possibly be justifiably confidential in the governance of a group like HMGS. The very thought that this could be justified is a great chunk of what is wrong.

……….. Amen!

Mike B

Seriously, what could possibly be justifiably confidential

Regarding internal operations there are some candid opinions and some information sharing that is perhaps best left out of minutes if it is not directly pertaining to some line item vote. Discussions on the issues central to a small hobby organization are going to drift into side conversation about individuals, personalities, and egos (just like these Historicon/HMGS-E topics demonstrate over and over again). Realistically, nobody would want to chair on any BoD where all their meetings were taped in full. An open meeting is in essence the membership meeting. There are valid reasons for closed door meetings (and wrong reasons too I'd add).

Externally, contract negotiating leverage is lost if a convention facility or hotel can gain access to all the information being discussed.

Also, discussion of staff personnel goes on that should be private as well. Convention directors are selected from a pool of applicants and that should be private as well. Also video has problems of its own.

Unless the entire board is facing the camera, like a panel discussion, and each one is micced, or there are several mics on the table, and the camera has multiple audio inputs, etc, etc. Not a very good way to document unless you are going to spend money to make the quality very good and ensure you capture everything.

I have to disagree completely. I cannot imagine anything that justifies secrecy with the possible exception of a case where someone was suspected of criminality that had not yet been proven.

Otherwise, it is simply abuse. If you don't want to be accountable then don't run for office. Some other egomaniac will take your place gladly.

Seriously, no one at BCC is trolling the HMGS minutes for secrets to aid negotiations. I suspect they had no real trouble getting HMGS to bend over for them without subterfuge. Even with HMGS undoubtably being robbed blind what percentage of BCC revenue is Hcon? One tenth of one percent? Probably not even.

I think it would do everyone some good to stop inflating the importance of HMGS. Outside these boards and the cons HMGS is a subatomic particle.

civildisobedience says: "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

Jeez, dude, get some perspective. It's basically a big wargaming club. There's nothing "wrong" and there's no Illuminati, no evil plots, and no abuse.

Unlax, game, and have fun. You'll give yourself an ulcer…

I didn't say the sky is falling. I couldn't agree more that is is basically a big wargaming club and should stop taking itself so seriously.

Though I would watch out. You called HMGS a club. I am certain that within moments a speacial team will be dispatched to TMP to correct you and advise you that HMGS is NOT a club. It is a non-profit corporation, blah blah.

Expect extensive recitations from the bylaws.

Heather, ease up or get out of the kitchen.

Couple of observations, from the outside looking in.

Perhaps Heather does have the right to complain as she does insinuate that she (Heather) is to blame for issues with the newsletter, since as she (Heather) stated, she (Heather) is the only member on the East BoD. In the future, when referring to problems with the newsletter, one should use the term "That Darn Cat". Takes sexual references out of things and everyone knows that cats are mischievous.

Second, with some careful editing of sensitive material regarding staff and candidates, taped BoD meetings could be published on U Tube and it would seem as if you were there. It is also possible to put them on a pay per view site and make the Chapter money, plus give the Directors some pause
to make sure they thought carefully before speaking or voting, regarding issues that are sensitive, by their very nature. In that manner, more members could possibly feel more love and not neglected.

Someone mentioned that the general membership should decide which BoD member filled which position and someone else pointed out that the BoD could best decide that.

Maybe morph those two ides into a system where the individuals would be placed where their talents best served the Chapter.

I know a group where the BoD makes that decision and has the power to remove a member if he or "That Darn Cat" feels that they are not qualified to fill that position and turns down the job. This regardless of the fact that the individual was placed on the BoD by a majority vote of the membership. Suppose you have a guy, who is good at reaching out to folks and an accountant both serving on the BoD.
Wouldn't the smart move be to put the accountant handling the books and the other guy handling promotions?

Just a couple of points.

c

Just copied this direct from the HMGS East By-laws and Policies section on hmgs.org site:
"95-03. Secretary directed to keep Official minutes in sufficient detail to allow membership to determine how each Director voted on specific issues. Minutes from the previous meeting will be made available to each Director within 30 days after said meeting was held for review and correction. 6 Sep 95. Modified 22 Jul 98."
I could not find how this policy was modified on 22 Jul 98, however, it is stated at the end of this section that all previous minutes should be requested of the secretary.
In short, nobody can readily see how the minutes should be handled. Also note the original policy above about minutes fails to state any deadline for their ultimate publication to the members.
Someone on the Board – preferably the secretary – should post what the current policy is according to policies and updates adopted in the past. They we will all have a clearer idea exactly what is required and possibly find out who, or what, is holding up the works.

Toby,

I don't know about the 22 Jul 98 mod date either but to my knowledge (at least as of Hcon08) the policy (95-03) you cite was the current policy regarding minutes publication.

Once the Secretary gets the draft minutes to the rest of the BoD – within 30 days – the ball's in the BoD's court to make them final, vote on them, and authorize publication. I can say from past experience that the Secretary has little control over how quickly the minutes move from his draft to the final published form. That "review and correction" clause in 95-03 sometimes (frequently?) seems to take on a life of its own.

I've a query on this topic to the current BoD outstanding on the HMGS Issues Forum because last week I was somewhat surprised to discover the most recent published minutes at hmgs.org/bodminutes.htm were the ones I published (May 08) before I came off the BoD.

By my count there are at least 6 BoD meetings (2 ea. at Hcon08, FI08, and CW09, and maybe more), 2 membership drafts of minutes from membership meetings (Hcon08 and CW09), and almost certainly several BoD telecons (unless the BoD's recently changed its teleconferencing habits) for which minutes are or should be pending.

See you next week!

Bill Rutherford

How often does the BOD meet?

Mike B

Mike,
The board has two to three meetings at each convention, usually an off site at least once between each convention, and as needed teleconferances. When I was on the board we were meeting at least once every other month and three to four meetings at the conventions.
VR
James Mattes

Bill, you are the man and we need more people like you on the BOD.

I don't understand why the board cannot "review and approve" the minutes from their last meeting at their next meeting and then place them online. Better this way (a few months) than a two year wait.

Late organization minutes can easily be mistaken for collusion amongst the BOD.

When I was on the board we were meeting at least once every other month and three to four meetings at the conventions.

James: Ah yes – who can forget the era when the term "Death by Meeting" was coined? ;-)

I don't understand why the board cannot "review and approve" the minutes from their last meeting at their next meeting and then place them online. Better this way (a few months) than a two year wait.

Justin: to be fair, it's only been just under 14 months but your point's good. Sometimes the minutes' contents are complicated enough that it adds grit to the machinery but 14 months does seem to be a bit long…

- Bill

it adds grit to the machinery but 14 months does seem to be a bit long…

It does make it difficult for members to be informed on what is going on, or to vote for BoD members based on meeting decisions if the meeting minutes lag by 1, 2, or more election cycles.