"Late Roman Period" Topic

I am painting a late Roman army. This is a time period I don't know much about. What books or internet sites would anyone recommend to get up to speed on the late Roman timeframe?

First, I am painting some late Roman heavy infantry. I am curious about the helmets types. It seems helmets were both brass and iron during this timeframe. Iron helmets are apparently the stronger helmet. So I assume the best units, such as cavalry and heavy infantry, wore iron helmets or perhaps just officers? Did the same roman unit wear both iron and bronze? Who wore the bronze helmets?

Thanks all!

Bronze was largely a thing of the past in the Late Imperial Rome period. Stick to Iron.

Books for gaming and painting…
Osprey:
Late Roman Infantry
Late Roman Cavalry

WAB:
Fall of the West

All of the above are great resources for gaming and for paint guides. All light reading.

Have a look at the Eye Candy section on Fanaticus lots of answers at a glance.

When you say late Roman, would this be after Julius Caesar then?

When you say late Roman, would this be after Julius Caesar then?

Yes. Although I am not sure what clearly defines the late Roman period. I am assuming it is the period in which the empire stagnated and came under increasing assaults by migrating germanic tribes through the final dissolution of the western Roman empire. So maybe after 200AD?

I guess post-3rd Century Crisis. Take a look at the books noted above. They are good sources.

"Late Imperial" is generally assumed to be very late 3rd century to 4th and 5th centuries AD. Lot of social, political and military changes. Very few primary sources (although more than we have for the late 2nd to mid-3rd centuries).

Great period to game in. The Osprey's are a good place to start as is the WAB supplement.

There is also a "Late Roman Empire" Yahoo Group who are quite friendly.

What figures are you using?

D~

I received a couple of packs from Pendraken's line of Clibinarium 10mm Late Romans a week ago or so. They look fantastic. I started painting the armored infantry yesterday and they are a real pleasure to paint. I will probably order a few more packs this week. I am going to build the army gradually over the next few months.

I am curious how common were slingers during this period both east and west? I am leaning towards gaming western empire.

I am looking at using Piquet's Archon and Comitatus for the rules at the moment.

I recently picked up army packs for Late Romans and Huns by Baccus from Scale creep. They are VERY nice! The Goths and more reinforcements will be coming a little later.

Thanks,

John

I recently picked up army packs for Late Romans and Huns by Baccus from Scale creep.

Are they compatible in height and bulk with the Pendrakens?

The WAB fall of the west book is a great starter.

Marcellinus is a great read too:
link

The site link has scans of 5th/6th century shield patterns taken from the Notitia Dignitatum; that's as authentic as you can get.

As for reading, there was an issue of Ancient Warfare on the third century crisis that was pretty interesting. I'd also second the Ospreys for military specifics. For more general histories, Peter Heather's "Fall of the Roman Empire" was decent, although the first couple of chapters go into societal changes from the early Empire in rather excruciating detail. Adrian Goldsworthy has a new one out on the same topic which may well be better (he's a wargamer after all, and tends to go for the 'important' stuff), but I haven't read it yet.

Also, there's an audio version of Gibbon's classic "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" available for free download via Librivox. As a scholarly work it's showing its age nowadays, but the price is right and you can listen to it while painting (that's what I did for my own Pendraken LR).

Sorry, Baccus are 6mm but absolutely awesome detail. Priced right too.

Thanks,

John

If using the Pendraken figures I'd recommend the shield transfers from LBM; they'll save you are fair amount of time.

If you want more deep reading try:

'Warfare in Roman Europe: AD 350-425" by Hugh Elton.
'The Late Roman Army' by Southern and Dixon.

And for even deeper reading: The surviving books of Ammianus Marcellinus and Vegetius. Both of these are free online.

Thanks all! Lots of good stuff to start digging.

Thanks all! Lots of good stuff to start digging.

However back to the helmets for a minute. I have the Oprey Roman Army from Hadrian to Constantine. In looking at helmets within the plates, I see a 150 AD coherts equites, 100-200 AD Levantine archer, a 200-300 AD Raetian auxiliary infantrymen all with bronze helmets. In iron helmets, I see a 100-150 AD Legionary, 100-200 AD Centurian, 100-150 AD Eastern Legionary, a 170-230 AD officer, 300-400 AD mounted officer and an 300-400 AD infantrymen.

So the Osprey, shows legionaries using iron helmets from 100 AD onward. But then it shows auxillaries using bronze helmets through at least 300 AD.

So when did bronze helmets simply disappear out of useage? Any ideas?

I have already painted up 15 mailed and helmeted infantry with bronze helmets. I am trying to decide whether I have to repaint the helmets iron or if I can justify using them as heavily armored auxillaries with bronze helmets. Or could I even use them as barbarians??? Although I think they are painted with a little too much regularity for pure barbarians. I think they could work as auxillaries.

Also I am still curious about slingers. Were still in common use after 200-300AD? Were they used in both the eastern and western empires? I have to put together another order and wondering about slingers and archers…

Bronze helmets continued to be produced throughout the period, concurrent with iron. There are examples of bronze 'imperial' type helmets, as well as the later 'ridge' and 'spangenhelm' types… it's just that pop-culture likes to depict EIR legionaries in iron, but is apparently less picky about LR. Realistically, we don't know what proportion would be bronze versus iron; bronze oxidizes slower, so in archaeological terms even a minority of bronze gear would produce disproportionate examples.

To make things more complicated, many of the LR helms that have been found have been plated, i.e. coated with silver, tin, brass, etc-- the helmet's appearance did not necessarily reflect its construction! Some educated guesswork makes many scholars think some soldiers – probably, but not necessarily officers – simply purchased helmets to their own specifications, rather than using materiel from the state arms factories. Google 'Berkasovo helmet' for a good example.

Anyway, the article at link was the best I could find online on short notice; I don't know how helpful it will be.

As for slingers… well, they never really went away, although there seems to be stronger evidence for archery as the main missile support. Slingers could be of the conventional type or staff slingers. In 10mm, Pendraken is your best bet for the former; for the staffers, I think you'd have to look in the MM or OG Byzantine ranges.

Thanks! I really didn't want to repaint the first unit. I think I will go with a variety of helmet construction types for my units.

Pendraken has got a new slinger I would like to paint. So it will be in the next purchase.

As Kniazsuvorov points out, you can vary the metallic color of the helmet. The Late Romans seemed much more cavalier about such things. Helmets can be gilded, tinned, bejewelled. It is likely that the officers would have the most elaborate helmets.

Also about bronze and iron, some 3rd Century helmets were made of both metals

The later the period, the more variety of equipment (less uniformity), and even lack thereof: so a unit could be rather "spotty" looking in a backwater or frontier garrison situation….