""It Would be Good for The Hobby!"" Topic

…but we're talking about playing with toy soldiers here, guys. Not climate change or terrorism, or democracy, or dwindling resources or inflation or actual real, serious stuff.

Take a course on Game Theory at the local University… all life is a game, so there is no need to worry about anything. :-)

Sometimes I think something may be 'good for the hobby' as it may appeal to a larger audience. Games Workshop is good for the hobby as it does evangleize more than any other company. You can find there products in a wide variety of places. The added bonus is that after someone comes into the hobby via GW most other products seem to be a great deal! :-)

Steve – in a word NO.

A convention is mostly for people already in the hobby, and at conventions we expect to be offered a chance to game…we are gamers after all.

It's doing things "for the sake of the hobby" as if there exists some overarching force for good called "The Hobby" or the impression that pushing bits of lead around a 6'x4' table somehow becomes more meaningful as an activity if 1,000 more people do it in 2009 than did in 2008 that I find a bit odd.

Playing games IS the hobby, you can't go wrong by playing a game.

As to Pancreas' (the man with the forever changing names) comment about the publications, I think that the internet has indeed changed things a bit. Now those mimeographed and photocopied rulesets are pdf's. They'll always sell a few thousand at most. However, I've never been convinced that rulesets make money. It's all the accoutrements that do. I bet Foundry's main goal is to sell more Napoleonics, not create the next great rule set to rule them all.

Steve, if that is what turns you on in the hobby, go for it.
If you think you "owe it to the Hobby", and feel compelled to grow it out of some sense of noblesse oblige, and feel miserable while doing it, then, yes, you are a dope.
If it makes you feel all warm and shiny, then you are not a dope.

Steve, I onnce asked if GW and Battlefront should give away their rules for free.
THAT almost got me run out of TMP on a rail, as all the publishers who did not make figures assumed that I meant that they should do it too.

I still think they should, since the only purpose of three volumes on Bagration and 4 on Market Garden is to sell figures.
Don't even get me started on "Midway Monsters", or whatever the heck it's called. They are going to charge real money for that book?

My question was rhetorical, I don't really care if you guys think I'm a dope or not :) I'm not one of those guys that would buy things I don't need or do something I don't want to do "for the sake of the hobby." My real motive was to spend the day with the 2 beautiful young women manning the Osprey booth.

LOL. You are certainly not a dope…

If I ever felt that I ought to do be doing something "for the good of the hobby", I'd start looking for a different hobby.

Steve, if that is what turns you on in the hobby, go for it.
If you think you "owe it to the Hobby", and feel compelled to grow it out of some sense of noblesse oblige, and feel miserable while doing it, then, yes, you are a dope.
If it makes you feel all warm and shiny, then you are not a dope.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

My hobby consists of playing with little metal and plastic soldiers after I've put some colours on 'em. Sometimes I read books about the colours of the real uniforms and the battles that the real soldiers fought in. Sometimes I watch films about that sort of thing, or look at nice pictures of toys on the internet. Sometimes I read other books about different ways to move the toys around.

In the grand scheme of things, it is a completely useless activity, and is of absolutely no ing benefit whatsoever to mankind. That's actually what I like about it. When one's life is filled with things like – in no particular order – marriage, job, home, education, moving to different countries or planning for the future – it is nice to have something that one does for oneself, and for no reason more altruistic than the simple joy of "doing something that makes one happy".

Now, you may say "but that's not MY hobby". Perhaps you give different emphasis and value to certain aspects of "your" hobby. Perhaps you consider yourself primarily a student of the great campaigns of history, and the miniatures are merely an incidentally convenient 3D representative aid to recreating a particular engagement. Maybe you like painting more than anything else, or collecting, or….you get my point. There are more "hobbies within a hobby" here than anything else, and ultimately this "hobby" is all about what you get out of it.

Want to host games, either at home or at a convention? Grand – but ask yourself why. Are you doing it because you feel you owe something to wargaming in general/history/a ruleswriter? If you're honest with youself, you're doing it because you like something and hope that you'll find some other folks whose tastes intersect with yours. Whether you're a tournament player, a painter, a collector, a historical simulationist, a historically representative gamer, a painter-collector or can squeeze yourself into any of the other boxes that people seem to like creating (perhaps another hobby in itself), you're doing it because it's something you enjoy doing, and because that activity has some kind of benefit to you. Mine is a selfish hobby, as is yours, if you're honest with yourself.

The only obligation I feel to "the hobby" is to buy things from those manufacturers that make things that I want, so that I can play games that I'm interested in with people I enjoy spending chunks of my free time with. I care about the aspects of "the hobby" that interest me in exactly the same way as I care about my neighbourhood – I will work to ensure that my neighbourhood continues to be a nice place because it is in my interest to do so.

I feel no call to "witness for", "testify", "evangalize" or any of the other quasi-religious terms that I've seen here. I have a hobby, not a bloody vocation.

My real motive was to spend the day with the 2 beautiful young women manning the Osprey booth.

Of course, Osprey are employing said young ladies "for the good of the hobby", aren't they?

Qouth the Pancreas

>Okay, so after I'm dead, after all my gaming buddies are >dead… I'm supposed to care whether or not miniature >wargaming exists?

Well, if you want your Grieving Widow to be able to make a small fortune liquidating your collection of Stuff after you're dead, you'd better hope it still exists ;-)

Cheers

w.

Are you not going to take all the Stuff in the box with you?

Are we on yet Murph?

>>> Don't even get me started on "Midway Monsters", or whatever the heck it's called. They are going to charge real money for that book?

And people will cheerfully pay good money for it.

Messrs. Barnum and Clemens are nodding their heads; they know the score.

Word.

Allen

In the grand scheme of things, it is a completely useless activity, and is of absolutely no [bleep]ing benefit whatsoever to mankind.

This is not correct. It is important for mankind to engage in non-work related activities such as hobbies and sports. Mine are wargaming and sea kayaking. These kinds of activities are vitally important for our emotional stability. It just so happens that our non-work activities include wargaming. Thus wargaming, as a hobby (non-work related activity), performs this emotionally important activity. If you dropped out of wargaming it would be important for you to fill that time, previously reserved for wargaming, with some other non-work related activity. So please don't denigrate the hobby. It is important for your emotional well being. Well, except for the Napoleonic fellows. JAs you can see on their site, they're already crazy as a loon.

Rich

I disagree with a previous post on the booth staffing by Osprey.
Osprey female staff at Historicon and other events are regular staff members located basicly in the business section of the editorial section. Of course their is some crossover. They are not hired specifically for a show to attract customers.

This year most of the osprey convention staff have been male.

Though I have seen such 'special'staffing by several companies since the 1980s when I first started attending. One company at a Gencon-Origins in Milwaukee had belly dancers at their booth and another had three playboy bunnies.

In regards to the psot on Avalon Hill's ads in their games. I remember seeing an SPI ad for S&T in a men's magaine in 1975. That was when I first got into wargaming as the ad got my attention.

As for things Bad for the hobby…

What do UK club members think of the impending compulsory CRB checks for those having even occasional contact with children?

If you've got a formal club (i.e. you take subs, rent a hall, have a committee, advertise for members, etc), the club officers will have to have CRB checks (£64 minimum). If you follow the full letter of the regulations, EVERY ADULT in a club where adults and youngsters mix will be required to be checked.

I know that some clubs have already gone down this route or have refused entry to under-18s altogether, but what do game stores such as Games Workshop do?

I'd not thought about this requirement for CBR checks. A fair number of our club are under 18. Do you have a link for further information?

This could be a big problem for us.

Hmm, where are the details for the change in regulations for CRB stuff (Googling as we speak but my searchfu may fail)? At the moment we only allow over 18s for this reason but there was some suggestion of changing it and this would nail the coffin firmly shut.

Here's the relevant bit of the new Vetting & Barring regulations that come into force on 1st January 2010:

Regulated Activity:

Regulated activity is the primary area of work covered by the Act and broadly deals with all those who have direct contact with vulnerable groups. Specifically, regulated activity covers any activity which involves contact with children or vulnerable adults and is of a specified nature (e.g. teaching, training, care, supervision, advice, treatment or transport); or any activity allowing contact with children or vulnerable adults and is in a specified place (e.g. school, club, Children's home, etc). For the activity to be regulated activity it must take place on a frequent or intensive basis. Regulated activity also covers fostering and childcare (but not adoption).

In addition, there are a number of defined "office holders" position, where a prescribed post-holder is deemed as engaging in regulated activity irrespective of their actual contact with vulnerable groups. This list includes such people as a Local Authority Director of Children's Services, trustees of children's charities and school governors.

It is worth noting that no distinction is made between paid and voluntary work.

As you can see from this, wargames club members definitely qualify if the club allows under-18s to attend, as it is regular contact with children, in a specified place and on a frequent basis. It's also worth noting that the club officers, being in a supervisory capacity, should ALREADY be checked under the CRB scheme!

I've already asked local child protection officers about this and they are deeply unsypathetic. They don't see the need for mixed adult-youngster groups and suggest that 'junior sections' should be formed, meeting on a separate night… what a load of twaddle.

Even so, the club officers running the 'junior section' will still need to have checks.

But don't panic. There are normally organisations working for local government that provide support to voluntary groups, clubs and societies and will organise all the CRB paperwork for you (my local one is the Pembrokeshire Association of Voluntary Services and there is something similar in every county hereabouts).

CRB checks could be something that is paid for from club subs, but the initial 'hit' of getting everyone cleared at £64.00 GBP a time is likely to be too much for some clubs to afford.

I presume that Games Workshop and other game stores with in-store gaming facilities must already be doing this? does anyone know?

I've started a new thread on the subject at TMP link