"Wargames Holidays - would you pay?" Topic

Since I started wargaming about 25 years ago, I've always held on to the idea that a wargaming holiday would be a cool thing. Go away to a hotel type location, where dozens of large scale boards, masses of models of all scales and periods are available for your use, with excellent scenery on hand to add that extra dimension to your games. I would spend my few days (maybe a week) playing new opponents, with your evenings taken up in a bar discussing war stories before retiring to your room and contemplating the next days games.
The question is, as a business idea is this viable? Would people actually pay to stay in a location and eat / sleep / play games for a week or so? I'd love to put a business plan together one day and see if such a venture could actually fly – I remember from my teenage years in the 80's that Hinchcliffe ran such a centre for a few years, but I think it folded.
So, over to you guys – as a straw poll, would anybody be willing to pay for such a holiday? Is there an appeal in such an idea? I'd welcome your thoughts!
Cheers

The Wargames Holiday Center in Scarborough was started by Peter Guilder and is still running. This isn't their page but it has their details

link

There are others around the country, one in Normandy, and I suppose there may be some in the UK. As far as I know, no one has never done this for Ancients. I don't know if there would be demand.

I don't think you would be able to pay your costs. This is something normally done by wealthy people.

People pay to go to conventions so maybe some people would but personally I would not. It might work if you already owned the place or rented it for the weekend. And of course you would have to have a large supply of well painted metal.

I possibly would … except my wife would never let me!

(although COW is an exception, see below)

Wargame Developments run 2 or 3 residential conferences each year (their main one "COW" is this weekend) and have been doing so for nearly 30 years.

link

You should definitely go to the WHC to pick up ideas and to speak to Gerry who runs the place.

Location is important. You need to have cheap accomidation and people have to be willing to go there. I'd love to run the Bangladesh Holiday Wargames Center, and I have huge numbers of figures here and a painting service on tap, but no would visit.

TMP link

From dasfrpsl's link:
"All of which meant that it wasn't the Battle of Ligny at all, but was merely some random encounter-battle between Napoleon and Bluecher."

At least at COW (and other WD events) if a session is billed as "The Battle of Ligny", the game would bear at least a passing resemblance to the historical battle!

Hi Chortle,

Ah, Peter Guilder's Wargame Holiday Centre, that was it! Not Hinchcliffe….I always wanted to go as a teenager but my parents were not keen. I'll check them out now I'm a bit more independent!
Maybe such a centre for Ancient wargaming will have to stay an unfulfiled dream :-(
I'll check out WHC too

If you have the right crowd, some of the smaller ancients 'competition' circuts are quite close to this concept.

Armati in the UK for instance is pretty much an irregular weekend ancients wargaming club – we all stay in the same hotels, head to the bar together, and play a lot of scenarios rather than the more traditional points games in the main.

I understand the WGR 6th edition guys are similar in focus.

It all depends on the people you play with.

I remember an American company advertising on TMP -- they were offering a wargaming cruising holiday.

It sounded like a pretty good idea. I don't know if they filled the ship or what happened.

It might work. I would consider taking such a holiday based on 1) cost/value 2) period/rules 3) travel time.

It would probably work best if the whole holiday was based around a campaign – that way everyone would stay involved and be encouraged (forced, even) to play all the other participants instead of forming little cliques.

It might also be a good idea if you could host it in a location which had something to do with the period. For example a Napoleonic weekend played in Davout's home town or Bernard Cornwell's toolshed.

"I remember an American company advertising on TMP -- they were offering a wargaming cruising holiday.

It sounded like a pretty good idea. I don't know if they filled the ship or what happened."

============================================================

"THERE. Conclusive proof I think that a hole THIS BIG in the side of a ship CAN be made by the amounts of explosive in an Italian Midget Submarine. My Game, I thi…..oh, we appear to be sinking."

"Sir. You HAVE to get into the lifeboat. "
"With NAPOLEONICS players that support the Austrian Bricole Theory? I-hi-hi think not."

"I don't understand it – they TRY to jump to the raft, but only go two feet and then sink like… like their pockets are full of Lead or something."

Doctor Johnson on Wargaming Cruises "Like Being in prison, with the chance of Being Drowned. And worse smelling Toilets."

Pat

"Wargame Developments run 2 or 3 residential conferences each year (their main one "COW" is this weekend) and have been doing so for nearly 30 years."

Yes. I'm going to COW in a couple of days.

"The question is, as a business idea is this viable?"

These aren't profit making events, they aim to cover costs and it is the attendees who bring the games and put them on.

Didn't Duke Siegfried used to do something like what Monophthalmus is talking about? It might even be the event he is thinking of in the 80's. IIRC Duke ran weekend gaming safari's in something like a gaming bed and breakfast.

Dave

Stuart Asquith, whilst editing Practical Wargame – organised a couple of long weekends at a Hotel in (I think) Swindon. Unfortunately I was unable to make either of them, but apparently they were very good.

napoleonics I think predominated….but that's from memory

So the answer is "yes" I would pay for a friday evening-sunday evening (2 nights in good hotel) type event, but I don't think I could justify a week away

I'd be tempted, if I had the dosh. But I could only do a weekend, too, not a full week.

I've been to several paying-basis wargames weekends in the UK… thoroughly enjoyed myself. Fantastic way to combine a short getaway with beer and wargamey company, AND enjoy all-day sessions of gaming with all you could ask for in the way of miniatures, table-space and scenery.

I'll be going again later in the year, & I'd certainly recommend it to anyone.
But personally… I wouldn't do a week.
If I was away for a week, I'd have to be doing something active at least some of the time.

I went to Peter Gilders WHC back in 1979(80?) God so long ago! This was when it was near York. Peter had a good range of figures there so you could pretty well pick periods as long as everyone was happy. I seem to recall at least one large Late Roman Game and some Egyptians as well. Plus we did a big Nap game using In the Grand Manner. I came across the copy I bought there yesterday! I also bought a stack of Russian 25mms that Peter had had done just for himself – very nice figures. I have photos of the games somewhere.

It was a good weekend anyway…

I would wait for the economy to improve a bit before risking too much money on that sort of venture. But to be honest, I don't see anyone making a living off the concept even in boom times. I could see the idea possibly making a bit of spending money from a special event one, two or three weeks a year. But don't let me stop you. You never know till you try.

Some chaps puts on mega games at a hotel in Newquay each year. I would have thought that using third party venues would be more cost effective than trying to be a B&B and a wargames venue.

Pontins used to run hobby holidays at one of their resorts.

I was not just wargames, but covered crafts and most other popular hobbies.

The main problem would be dining, as some one would be bound to demonstrate their knowledge of battles using all the dining implements!

Ahhh

I think that is called Enfilade.

mjc

Go away to a hotel type location, where dozens of large scale boards, masses of models of all scales and periods are available for your use, with excellent scenery on hand to add that extra dimension to your games. I would spend my few days (maybe a week) playing new opponents, with your evenings taken up in a bar discussing war stories before retiring to your room and contemplating the next days games.

Sounds like any game convention with a bar and attached hotel. Take it into an exotic location and it is still a convention. As a business, I'm sure it would work given a sound business plan. Lots of non-profit and for-profit conventions are still around to testify to that.

Someone mentioned the Mega Games put on by Dom in Cornwall (Newquay). Dom started from scratch. You might be able to do something like this for Ancients – a once yearly event. You only have to pay for the facilities for the week (I'd suggest a week) which cuts your costs. Perhaps you can get a lot of people to turn up for a mega event.

Neil
reinforcementsbypost.com (painting service)
games2trains.com (auction site)
reinforcementsbypost.com (blog)

I am surprised that no one has mentioned HISTORICON yet. It is basically a four day holiday with games and bars, with the added attraction of traders too.
I used to frequest the Wargames Holiday Centre as a teenager, between paying events when Peter Gilder let the Bridlington Club use the facilities for free.
As to wether these are paying concerns, I would say yes, as they continue to exist.

Nic EUREKA MINIATURES

Not in a million years.

"I am surprised that no one has mentioned HISTORICON yet. It is basically a four day holiday with games and bars, with the added attraction of traders too."

No one has mentioned Historicon yet, because the OP is in the UK and he is talking about a business venture in the UK.

We know that all the US conventions are run in big hotels and conference centres with hotel/bar facilities to hand. They have to, because of the distances people have to travel to attend. Shows in the UK are not like that.

Yes UK shows are not like that (don't know why – you'd think all the cheap[er] chain hotels with meetings rooms would be looking for ways to make more money ) and I think also that the idea would be to have just a small group that could play long(er) games (so no traders ghall to subsidise the event).

My God, that's it!! Extend Historicon to a week, and you've got it, Wargame Nirvana!! Refight Leipzig at 1-1! Cannonades by moonlight! Sign me up.

"Build it and they will come".

Sounds like about a $500K start up cost however.

There´s one on Crete now

wargameholidays.com

I'm fortunate to be involved in another club that has a two week holiday – hires a barn partially converted to a conference centre and game 24/7. The rest of the farm provide accommodation.

This is just bringing your own stuff and gaming – but with the luxury of loads of space and a 21' table.

I don't think the sums add up for the number of people who would come, how many return visits, how many different games and figures and terrain you'd need.

Hi there – we run the wargame holidays on Crete. We've just launched. It is a big investment in time and money. Mind you, we do the vast majority of it ourselves. Getting several thousand figures across to Crete from Britain is a massive undertaking. That's not to mention getting the terrain and buildings there too.
We've built a 50 foot table, we do aim to add another 20 foot some point soon.
Guess the main thing with a wargame holiday like this is that you only need to bring yourself. All of the soldiers and everything, including the dice is all provided. There's no pressure to get stuff done for a big game, no matter how well organised and dedicated club members might (or might not) be.

Similar to Mike Snorbens above, and I suspect true for many. I'm sure many of us on here would like to do it but family commitments would make it impossible. Maybe if you combined it with a spa week for the ladies it might work ?:)

We're up and running and to answer Marshal Mark, there is lots to offer the "ladies". The infinity pool, relaxing areas around the pool and the veranda, plus the shopping, food and gifts!
Get the ladies to have a look at the Relax part of the website!

wargameholidays.com

Cheers

You could tap more revenue if you offer an in house divorce attorney for the wives. :)

I used to go to the Wargames Holiday centre in Scarborough on a regular basis, years ago when I was a lot tougher. Accommodation was very basic (cold showers in September!) so you went for the gaming rather than the comfort and one year my car was broken into (outside the hotel) and HiFi system ripped out.

I tried to set up my own wargames holiday business using hotel facilities and touring the UK – not enough interest to make it worth doing.

Somewhere in Lorraine (east France), Xavier Jacus organizes such wargame holydays since the 1980s and it still works, it's called "les Semaines de l'Hexagone". Full accomodation, wargames and boardgames at will, etc, for one week (yes, not a week-end! a full week) during the school holydays.

I think we've tried to cover all the bases Sector51. The accommodation is good, there is sun which makes for hot showers via the solar panels, there is a pool (which could be used as a proxy bath!).
The main point is we have a dedicated large wargame room, everything is laid out for the gamers and laid on, you need bring nothing with you (a change of clothes would be nice).
We thought about the scout hut/b&b combo in the UK, but its not the same thing is it? Lumping thousands of soldiers around and setting up and breaking down at the end of each event, plus the fact that the gamers aren't concentrated in one place to socialise, just didn't seem the way forward.
Hopefully, we've got the balance right, it seems to be working fine, we've had a number of bookings already, lots of enquiries too. What I wanted to do was create something like the old Gilder model, but update it and build in a lot more creature comforts. The exotic location is a personal choice, makes a lot of sense as the island is full of history from the ancients to the C20th. Pretty much guaranteed hot weather and a superb compromise deal in terms of the balance of gaming and non-gaming if you bring your wife or girlfriend.